TheBard said…

Americans aboard can once again hold their heads high and proudly proclaim their citizenship.  Mr. Obama has changed the tone of international discourse from one of rancor and profound mistrust of American motives to one of hope for a future led by America, but in partnership with the rest of the world's (sane) nations.    

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How? By bowing and scraping to the Middle East? By letting North Korea continue to perform long-range missle tests without response? The international papers that I've checked online all seem to deem his winning the Nobel Peace Prize as a joke, farce, mistake, etc.  If he truly had really changed their opinion of things, they probably would support his getting the award.

so fast???? guys, dont u think its a bit early for Mr. Obama to get Noble Peace Prize...There's lot more to be done...

njcjicaa -- bowing to the King of Saudi Arabia is far far far less than the Bushes (both HW and W) did with them. They were business partners with the Carlyle Group with the King of Saudi Arabia. If you google you will see videos of Bush bowing too.

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/33289_Bush_Bowed_Too

With respect to the reasons for awarding the Noble peace prize one of the reasons it can be awarded is for potential, it can be a forward facing good will prize.

Bowing to the Saudi's?   Socialist Health care?   Tsk tsk.   We have a socialist military under that thinking.....so why not support health care for each other the same way we would support a massive weapons deployment system.   Bowing to the Saudis?      It's called diplomacy.    How about being in business with the Saudi's or sitting on the board of directors of major banks and companies with the Saudis as many of our leaders and retired leaders have and still do? 

I hope you'll see the world is never black and white but shades of gray and spin doctors and pundits who want to sell books and sell more ads by creating lots of traffic to their television shows and internet sites for their advertisors need to take extreme positions and say extreme things and every once in a while they something that has some basis in truth in it... but not very often.   

You think it's too early?  You think using the Peace Prize to make a statement is wrong... that's a clean valid opinion that I disagree with but makes logical sense.

I hope people will read more than headlines and listen to something more than Fox News.  I hope people will gain perspective, have a sense of history and remember to practice compassion.

Wonderful discourse.   Let's continue to share... remember we all have the right to have an opinion and I doubt that any of us are 100 percent correct EVER with our understanding of facts and being able see things clearly.... 

ChrisJarmick said…

Bowing to the Saudi's?   Socialist Health care?   Tsk tsk.   We have a socialist military under that thinking.....so why not support health care for each other the same way we would support a massive weapons deployment system.   Bowing to the Saudis?      It's called diplomacy.    How about being in business with the Saudi's or sitting on the board of directors of major banks and companies with the Saudis as many of our leaders and retired leaders have and still do? 

I hope you'll see the world is never black and white but shades of gray and spin doctors and pundits who want to sell books and sell more ads by creating lots of traffic to their television shows and internet sites for their advertisors need to take extreme positions and say extreme things and every once in a while they something that has some basis in truth in it... but not very often.   

You think it's too early?  You think using the Peace Prize to make a statement is wrong... that's a clean valid opinion that I disagree with but makes logical sense.

I hope people will read more than headlines and listen to something more than Fox News.  I hope people will gain perspective, have a sense of history and remember to practice compassion.

Wonderful discourse.   Let's continue to share... remember we all have the right to have an opinion and I doubt that any of us are 100 percent correct EVER with our understanding of facts and being able see things clearly.... 

 

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Very well said, on this and other posts on this topic. Nice job Chris!

njchicaa said…

TheBard said…

Americans aboard can once again hold their heads high and proudly proclaim their citizenship.  Mr. Obama has changed the tone of international discourse from one of rancor and profound mistrust of American motives to one of hope for a future led by America, but in partnership with the rest of the world's (sane) nations.    

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How? By bowing and scraping to the Middle East? By letting North Korea continue to perform long-range missle tests without response? The international papers that I've checked online all seem to deem his winning the Nobel Peace Prize as a joke, farce, mistake, etc.  If he truly had really changed their opinion of things, they probably would support his getting the award.

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How prey-tell is the U.S. or its citizens bowing and scraping to the Middle East? And what form should the U.S. response to the North Korean Missile tests be?  Since when shouldn't a sovereign nation be allowed to develop weapons for its own defense?  About the prize:

"In reaching its decision the Norwegian committee said in a statement: 'Only very rarely has a person to the same extent as Obama captured the world's attention and given its people hope for a better future...His diplomacy is founded in the concept that those who are to lead the world must do so on the basis of values and attitudes that are shared by the majority of the world's population.'"

"The international papers that I've checked online all seem to deem his winning the Nobel Peace Prize as a joke, farce, mistake, etc." What papers are these?  Citations please; actual quotes?

The BBC has done a fair job of detialing the response from noted world leaders here (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8298802.stm).

njchicaa said…

TheBard said…

Americans aboard can once again hold their heads high and proudly proclaim their citizenship.  Mr. Obama has changed the tone of international discourse from one of rancor and profound mistrust of American motives to one of hope for a future led by America, but in partnership with the rest of the world's (sane) nations.    

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How? By bowing and scraping to the Middle East? By letting North Korea continue to perform long-range missle tests without response? The international papers that I've checked online all seem to deem his winning the Nobel Peace Prize as a joke, farce, mistake, etc.  If he truly had really changed their opinion of things, they probably would support his getting the award.

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And what response would you like for the United States to give the North Koreans, then?  A pre-emptive nuclear strike?  A declaration of war,  perhaps?  (Technically, we're still at war with North Korea, in case anyone missed that in social studies...what we have in the Korean Peninsula is a cease-fire, which is not the same as a peace treaty.)

And if by "bowing and scraping to the Middle East" you mean trying to undo the damage done by the previous Administration and try not to be imposing our views on them, so be it.  I'm not one who would advocate a Neville Chamberlain-like appeasement policy, and if we need to use force to protect our national interests I'm for it as long as it's warranted and with just cause. 

I do think that the Nobel Peace Prize committee is politically biased toward people who aren't conservative, but that's the way Scandinavians usually tend to lean. And frankly, I am glad that President Obama won it; I don't want that pro-Hugo Chavez Colombian senator, Piedad Cordoba, to win anything that prestigious.

Well, I thank TaraLee for all of her research on the criteria/logic for awarding a Nobel Peace Prize.

I think it was probably premature, and a political statement (which is not necessarily a bad thing). People are saying why give it to him, when he is increasing the troop strength in Afghanistan, but I need to be *completely* honest with you. My husband is an OIF veteran, and even so, I do not know very much about OEF, that is, the war in Afghanistan. And I should learn.

On this discussion board, I find myself generally agreeing with the positive comments.

ChrisJarmick said…

and listen to something more than Fox News.  I hope people will gain perspective, have a sense of history and remember to practice compassion.

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Newsflash: I don't watfch the network/cable stations.  I keep hearing that Glenn Beck is someone I should check out, but I haven't bothered to do so.  I have these thoughts WITHOUT listening to any talking heads. 

I have lots of perspective.  I spend probably 20% of each month's income on "charity" issues.  DO NOT tell me that I am selfish and that I can't see things clearly.  That is the WRONG approach. 

TheBard said…

njchicaa said…

TheBard said…

Americans aboard can once again hold their heads high and proudly proclaim their citizenship.  Mr. Obama has changed the tone of international discourse from one of rancor and profound mistrust of American motives to one of hope for a future led by America, but in partnership with the rest of the world's (sane) nations.    

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How? By bowing and scraping to the Middle East? By letting North Korea continue to perform long-range missle tests without response? The international papers that I've checked online all seem to deem his winning the Nobel Peace Prize as a joke, farce, mistake, etc.  If he truly had really changed their opinion of things, they probably would support his getting the award.

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How prey-tell is the U.S. or its citizens bowing and scraping to the Middle East? And what form should the U.S. response to the North Korean Missile tests be?  Since when shouldn't a sovereign nation be allowed to develop weapons for its own defense?  About the prize:

 

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Vincent,

And here, my friend, is where you and I simply will not find common ground.

If the so-called Democratic People's Republic of Korea were a normal nation-state with no territorial ambitions whatsoever, or if its armed forces were under arms purely for self-defense, I'd be all for the "every sovereign nation has a right to develop weapons for its own protection."

That having been said, I think that this argument falls flat on its face when you consider that

1. North Korea is the world's per capita most militarized nation in the world

2. Its government has dug a network of tunnels under the DMZ in case it decides to invade its neighbor, the Republic of Korea

3. There's no sign whatsoever that North Korea has given up on its Great Leader's dream of reunifying the peninsula, under Communist rule, of course.

I'm sorry, my friend.  We're usually pretty much simpatico in most aspects of foreign and domestic policy, but here we'll have to politely agree to disagree.

I was not writing in response just to you, or directing things just at you... that assumption is yours.      If the shoe did fit..then so be it.. and if it does not, then why so defensive?  

I hope you do have a lots of perspective and keep your mind open.   I'm sorry if you feel picked on or attacked... not my intention at all.  Just a discussion.

Remain civil and compassionate.    Take care.

TheBard said…

Kudos to Mr. Obama for winning the Noble Prize for Peace.  President Obama, like it or not, has almost single-handedly reverse the immense ill-will brought about by the incredibly inept and unilateral Bus Administration.  Americans aboard can once again hold their heads high and proudly proclaim their citizenship.  Mr. Obama has changed the tone of international discourse from one of rancor and profound mistrust of American motives to one of hope for a future led by America, but in partnership with the rest of the world's (sane) nations. 

I know there are those that feel as though the United States should lead the world, but not be a part of it, but such a stance is far too insular, devoid of intellectual reflection, and a respect for history for the welfare and long-term viability of the nation.   With President Obama's leadership the U.S. can, and hopefully will, usher in a new era of peace wherein the U.N. starts to live up to it charter and stated principles.   Well done Mr. Obama and well met!     

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'Mr. Obama has changed the tone of international discourse" 

My thoughts exactly!  Well said!  Thank you bard . . .  

{ edited }

I have read and am still reading all the other posts and I still stand by his winning the Nobel Peace Prize.   I for one, am very proud of Our President.  He's come far and above anything else his wretched predecessor and his daddy EVER did.  I'm ashamed that the Bush clan is from my state. (I stand corrected ~ see below) 

President Obama deserves this Nobel Peace Prize.  To me, he has given us more hope than any President of my generation.   He's been left with a mountain of things to deal with. 

{and yes I'm still reading & adding a few more things here as I'd like.  I welcome others' views}

kt047 said…

Ironically, i just posted a question about the Nobel Peace Prize. In that case, I'll answer by stating that it doesn't make sense to me that Obama won the Nobel Peace Prize. My reason is not political, but logical. Why would a peace prize be given to a president who is committed to the War in Afghanistan?

Note-I am an Obama supporter which is why I think that it shouldn't be made into a political matter.

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The sad fact about the war in Afghanistan is that because of the idiotic decision by the previous President to invade Iraq, it became sort of the Forgotten War, stripped of resources and left lingering on the back burner while the Army and Marines were sent to fight in a country that had no common cause with Al Qaeda and had nothing to do with Sept. 11, 2001.

President Obama needs to be committed to Operation Enduring Freedom (OEF) for various reasons. 

First, like it or not, he's the Commander in Chief of the nation's armed forces. 

Second, it's the war we should have kept on fighting with vim and vigor from when it began in October 7, 2001 till March 2003 and not diverted resources to invade Iraq.

Third, Afghanistan - under the Taliban - was where Osama Bin Laden and his cronies were based when the 9/11 attacks were ordered and carried out.

We're at war, true.  But the sheer fact that President Obama is willing to re-emphasize diplomacy and better relations with the world certainly is a Peace Prize-worthy sea change in American foreign policy.

I can't see any peace he has brought about in the past year.  Can you?  If he has brought peace, then why are we at war in Afghanistan and IRAQ?  I really felt a let down when I saw he had won the Nobel Peace Prize.  GEEZ.  Come on, are they that short of candidates?????

Good for him, now he needs to work for it. He has accomplished many things in his lifetime. I heard on the news that they honored him because he represents hope for a better future. I agree, however he still has to deliver on his promises. I think it was to soon for him to win this award.

viewkgr said…

I can't see any peace he has brought about in the past year.  Can you?  If he has brought peace, then why are we at war in Afghanistan and IRAQ?  I really felt a let down when I saw he had won the Nobel Peace Prize.  GEEZ.  Come on, are they that short of candidates?????

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You know, I don't mind politically-oriented discussions, but I find it difficult to exchange ideas with people who post the first thing that crosses ther mind and don't bother to read previous posts or even think about just how difficult ending wars is in actuality. 

It's not as though a President (of any party) can simply say to the military, "Okay, folks. The war's over. Bring the troops home."  The process of withdrawing from a war, especially ones where it's not the United States against a government with a standing army but against highly-motivated insurgents and terrorists, is far more complicated than that.

As President Bush was so fond of saying, leaving Iraq (and by inference, Afghanistan) before the local governments can establish security and the rule of law is to condemn the people in those countries to ceaseless bloodshed and a real possibility of Al Qaeda and other terrorist groups establishing a hold there. 

And don't think for one minute that the terrorists will simply wave goodbye and let our troops withdraw in good order and without a shot being fired.  No, it will be a retreat under fire, with the insurgents, Taliban and Al Qaeda guys shooting at our men and women even as they pull out.

Negotiating peace through diplomacy and force is going to be necessary in Afghanistan.   As Obama won the Nobel Peace Prize, the generals were pushing for Obama to send at least 40,000 more troups into Afghanistan.

The award has more often than not been used to encourage political leaders to continue on their stated path and toward their goals of creating more peace in the world.  

Obama himself has said he doesn't believe he deserved the award.  Many don't believe he deserves the award...yet.  If the award were consistently given to men of peace at the twilight of their work and after their accomplishments I would wholeheartedly and unequivocably agree with those who say he doesn't deserve it and it's a mistake to give him the award.   That is not the case however... that's not how it was done in the past.

Of course it is politically motivated... many politicans and government legislatures, past winners, as well as college professors vote for the Nobel Prize winners.  Who else was nominated?  We won't know for 50 years... that is never released.   

It is too bad that people don't take the time to do more reading on the subject from various sources and sometimes don't read comments that are made before quickly typing their own response.   Other people don't take enough time to consider what is being written and the intention behind.    But that's no surprise and it's good there is place for people to knee jerk if that's what they feel they need to do.

Wonderful points and opinions being shared.   And things are remaining civil and positive.  Bravo...

Good for him, not sure I agree about them handing it out so quickly since really nothing has been done yet.  I am still waiting for him to do something here in teh US about all the people living homeless due to job losses and forclosures. 

It is a great honor and hope he actually lives up to it

It's not like he entered. Give him time to do something before giving him such a major award.

Isn't it exciting and beautiful to see our nation's leader honored for something positive.  That hasn't happened in a long time, but we have not had an admirable leader in a while, especially to other nations and people seem to like President Obama, I know I do!

I completely agree with you. He has done nothing to earn this award. Most of the other countries heads do not like him. I too think his agenda is not right for this country. He said he wants to have a one party country, and that does not include republican. He also said this is not a Christian nation that we are Muslin. He is Muslim and I think they have groomed him for this position and now they feel they are taking over our country. This is a very scary situation.

Nancy,

You can rest easy on at least one score.  The Bush family is actually from Conn.  They're our burden.

dmrg7- Really? A Muslim, really?

Obama is not a Muslim, remember during the campaign, even John McCain said that he is not a Muslim. Don't you recall the whole stink over his pastor, the pastor of the church- not mosque but church. The pastor that he continued to support and not disclaim because he is responsible for bringing the President to Christ?

Please re-check your facts.

Wow, guys and gals...this one is getting pretty touchy.  Why don't we all sing along..."I can see clearly now the rain is gone" a few times? 

Bayou

I actually removed all of the testiness (that I could) from my previous post. The far right, fox-Rush-tea bagger-astroturf party line is just absurd. Don't like the President, that is your right, talk about it too, I will support that as well, but when someone persists in spreading lies and falsehood I feel that those of us who know the truth should speak out.

TaraLee said…

Bayou

I actually removed all of the testiness (that I could) from my previous post. The far right, fox-Rush-tea bagger-astroturf party line is just absurd. Don't like the President, that is your right, talk about it too, I will support that as well, but when someone persists in spreading lies and falsehood I feel that those of us who know the truth should speak out.

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While I agree that people should point out clear false accusations (not opinions but speaking as though something were fact), the line I bolded above sounds very confrontational. We all know pretty much who is on what side of the fence and really, what does it matter? It is what it is. We are all Americans and we all have one president. If he does great things, the majority will unite in praise for him. If he doesn't, then people will continue to be split. It has been that way pretty much with every president except this time, it's just so much more intense and I honestly don't know why.

The almost worship-like stance that some people take for Obama is somewhat....confusing to me. The near hate stance that others have is as well. He hasn't yet done much to merit EITHER passion as strongly as some people are feeling in my opinion. Let's see what the next year brings and let's hope it's all good stuff!

And let's not get too upset and angry at people who have differing opinions. America was built on the opinions of many and I don't recall us ever being united completely in our stance on anything. Obama is not going to change that and I wouldn't want him to. Just my humble opinion and I now bow out of this thread because it goes round and round like a top but has no end.

Shows you what I know Rudi ~ thanx for that correction.  Doesn't GW live here?  Last I heard he did, which still makes me cringe.  I don't care enough to search that though...

Thanks again~! {runs from thread in embarassment lol}

quote comment. . .below

kk123 said…

so fast???? guys, dont u think its a bit early for Mr. Obama to get Noble Peace Prize...There's lot more to be done...

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The "Nobel" Peace Prize is in recognition of a candidates past achievements as well as present . . . as in the case of President Obama. My hope is that it [will]  encourage open dialog and discourse for global relations and inevitably bring about serious discussion for peace   As far as fast. . . fast is a relative word.  Soon may be more appropriate, however I'd like to add while traveling abroad this year I have personally experienced a different ambiance towards American citizens.  It's much different than my visits during the Bush years.  It's refreshing to say the least.  I think our President has had a lot to do with this current change in attitude!