I work per-diem at a detox/rehab, so we try to get people to change by not relying on alcohol or drugs (and thus removing the related behaviors of lying, stealing, etc.).

It's wonderful when somebody does accomplish change, but oh, so hard! (Just think of your last diet.) We see the same people attempting sobriety over and over.

With any change, beware of relapse!

I've seen a lot of people try sincerely to change but have only known a few who really have. I think non-addictive behavior is easier to change than addictive behavior but there's always hope.

A friend of a friend was a hard drug user for years and has been sober around four years now. But then, my neighbor's neighbor, who is always trying to do better, is currently in jail after his 4th DUI. I noticed he had given up on it a few months back and feel sorry for him but maybe now he'll get help.

As far as cheating and lying, I think it's a coin toss. Some people grow up, others have reached their limits. If you see personal growth in other areas then I'd give it a chance. Personally, I'm not that trusting. I've had married women try to seduce me or get overly flirtatious and it's made me wonder. Maybe I just listen to too much country music.

onwaytozion said…

We see the same people attempting sobriety over and over.

 

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All those "failures" add up to meaningful pockets of sobriety. The more pockets, the better. Tell them to keep on trying even if they feel they'll relapse. Then try again. It took me awhile to kick cigarettes but what I didn't realise was that all those one and two week pockets were quietly breaking down the addiction. By the last time I tried, it had gotten pretty easy.

I guess the real question is, do you think he's changed?  How long has he been on the straight and narrow?

I truly believe that he has changed. There was an incident that happened that changed his whole prespective on our relationship. He now helps with the kids, cooks, cleans, checks with me before doing anything/making choices without me, he is always at home when he's not at work, shows his support for anything I do, and all the wonderful things that make a relationship work. Before this milestone hit, he would just be rude, disrespectful, etc., pretty much young and dumb.

He has been doing good for about two years now (hints why I called him the soon-to-be husband). We're getting married on Valentine's Day.

Do I think people really CHANGE? No. I think that the urge to cheat or lie will always be there. Now, accepting this behavior and resisting temptation is another thing. This is why communication is always important in a relationship - stay on cue with him. One thing I can see that would be an issue is a lack of trust on your part though - it's hard to trust someone after that. If you can't trust your spouse in a relationship then I really do fear for the relationship. Just my two cents though.

Are you in pre-maritial counseling?

No, I don't believe in counseling. Someone else telling me what to do when they haven't been there through the bad AND the good? Nah, not for me.

However, I have found myself trusting him with a lot more than I ever thought I would. I had to step up some things on my part also. He has went from cheating all the time, never at home, always lying, phone on silent to always at home, haven't caught him in a lie yet (I consider myself a P.I. when needed) and he lets me even take his phone with me when I go places. I don't fully trust him because as you said it is going to be hard but I am working at it and since he is showing me that he is putting forth the effort, I am there also, working at US.

Let me set it straight...  in counseling, they do NOT tell you what to do! But they are able to ask the right questions to make you think about your own values. In premarital counseling, they can ask you both questions that commonly come up, so that there are no surprises further down the line.

Let me rephrase that then, I do not want someone else's input in OUR relationship. I chose to stay away from 3 person relationships.

Together, we have been homeless, had 3 children, moved 4 times, too many ups and downs. I just don't want a stranger asking/telling my what they think we should do. I get enough from family and friends and that's exactly why I am here. My family and freinds are the ones that told me I should give him another chance, he has changed DRAMATICALLY!! I always knew he was a good guy. I just grew up way before he did. (Hint: we had children at ages 19 & 20). He was scared and now since he has had time to think and grow, he's more mature than he was. In time, he became a man. (Also, his father wasn't around and his mama got around TOO MUCH). He did what he seen his parents do. So, I don't think that a stranger would help, nothing against them though.

No, ultimately at the core, most ppl don't change.  The ones who do I give 'em props. Sometimes ppl do "grow up" and grow out of it with age, maturity, etc. 

You'll know in your heart and your heart only...I know for me, if trust is gone, it's gone.

Well, I guess people can change their behaviors, mature, whatever. Are you going to end up always having to police things? Checking emails, phone logs, wondering when he comes home an hour late, wondering about a strange appointment? If you are okay with taking that role, then OK, but if it's totally going to stress you out any more than your relationship already has, then you need to think of yourself and your kids ultimately.

My husband got us into a horrible financial situation that took me eight years to sort out, and every time I ever gave him any responsibility with money he has squandered or mismanaged it some way. I told him that I couldn't stay married to him if this situation persisted. People say it's strange or wrong, but he has no access to any of our money, save an amount in a joint account so he has some money. He wouldn't change his financial habits, even though, seriously, put in some effort!

Our situation does not bother me, so if you can figure something out that is good for everyone involved and keeps you sane... soldier on.

I have never been in that situation, but I find myself drawn back to this thread because what I want to say is this:  if you are making the statement in a thread topic and asking questions, maybe that's a sign. 

If I ever AM in that situation, I'd get out so quick he'd never see me again.  Thankfully we have no trust issues and I have both male & female friends, online and in real life.  My BF is a guy from California by way of the Bronx.

Go find my "David Letterman Issue" thread...that's how I feel about all that.  I don't want to pull the thread up, I called him all kinds of names...and I'll still watch his show regardless.  Thankfully, I'm not married to him. 

Still, I'm not telling YOU what to do...or anyone...you posted the thread hun.  I see you are from Kansas. 

Take care,

Nancy

Well, this thread has gotten off topic. I wasn't asking for opinions about my life. I do not see this as a sign. Just wondering how people feel about the "Once a ____, always a ____". Not just in regards to relationships. I'm talking about dope dealers, crackheads, alcoholics, etc... I didn't ask a certain opinion, just gave an example. Thanks anyways!

I'll tell you what I've told other people:  don't ask questions you don't want to know the answers to.

okey dokey then, good luck~!

I believe some people can change. Sometimes it takes them to hit rock bottom. Some will never change.

To predict someone's future behavior, is to look at their past behavior.

I think it all depends, were they young when they made the choices that steered them wrong, or older and should of known better? People can change, but they have to want to change. You can't change a person, a person can only change themselves.  It has to come from within.

I myself was a horrible girlfriend, I cheated, i lied, and I broke the love of my lifes heart all because I assumed he was doing the same thing. He wasn't. We got back together and now everything is wonderful! I don't even think about cheating on him, and we are open and honest. So yes People DO Change!

Nancy44 said…

I'll tell you what I've told other people:  don't ask questions you don't want to know the answers to.

okey dokey then, good luck~!

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Well put.

I think people can change. But I think it is more of a growing, learning, evolving thing, not a change. I am different now than when I was younger, but I have not "changed" so much as I have grown, learned from my experiences and evolved and continue too. My husband has made some bad choices, but I didn't label him. He has suffered consequences and learned from them. I know that I have made mistakes that I don't/won't make anymore because I have grown.

There are many people who will never evolve, who get stuck in a pattern of behavior for whatever reason. ANd there are those who claim to have "changed" who just get better at hiding.    

One thing that worries me is people who go from problem child to "perfect".  Maybe I have trust issues... but no one is perfect.

I always think it's those couples that seem perfect that have the most problems behind close doors.  Think about Bree on Desperate Housewives.  Always putting on a smile in public, but behind close doors her relationship is a mess.

People do learn and grow, but they have to do it on their own.  If you force someone to learn, grow and change... it's likely it won't "stick"

But as for me, I would have dumped that guy 8 years ago the very first time he cheated and never looked back. 

I think some people have an addiction to spending.  When I make a purchase, I mentally subtract it from my bank account.  Other people don't always do this.  I don't police my husband's spending but we have full visibility to all our money so either of us can question the other if we see an odd spend.  

He laughs at me but I have alerts that tell me when more than 60$ is taken from the ATM.  Soon as I get the alert I call him to make sure it was him.  The alert is not for him, it's for in case my card gets stolen, but still, we have that visibility.

Final Comment: Everyone should do pre-marital counseling!  No they do NOT tell you what to do and they do NOT tell you not to get married.  Instead they open to your eyes to things you might not agree on.  In most churches, it's a requirement or else the priest won't even marry you.

There were no big revelations in our Pre-marital counseling other than the priest telling us we were very compatible :)  It's not so much of a judgement thing, but more of a "getting to know you" thing.  Honestly my husband and I had already discussed kids, finances, etc, but having these classes helped to solidify that we were on the same page.

Question:

"Do you think that people change their ways in regards to cheating, lying, etc...?"

Answer: No.

I agree! Back when we got married, 27 yrs. ago it was the same way pre-marital counseling. They called it Pre-Canna. They would ask you questions and then separate  you, gals stayed in the room, men went out in the hallway. Next time the opposite..etc., then the couples would exchange their views on the questions posed to them. Children, etc., And then different couples through out the day would come in and talk about how they dealt with issues. One that sticks out in my mind was this one couple if they ever got in a fight, it would be in the nude. They said it was pretty hard to stay mad at each other having an arguments in the nude, they would end up laughing. And never go to bed mad at each other. One of the biggest moments was when a couple married, I think it was 75 yrs, came at the end and talked (during our candle lit dinner). to say ALWAYS respect each other and never take your mate for GRANTED! That day, and I still have our note books from the class is something I cherish! I don't even know if my hubby knows I hung on to them all these years, I guess I should ask him. That day gives you things to think about "INSTEAD" of just the wedding day, but the rest of your lives together. Somethings we had never discussed because we didn't think about it. Nobody told us what or what not to do, just more conversation to discuss. To be sure this is a huge step you make, not just the "DAY". The day works, atleast for us 27 years later, and looking for as many more days that hold ahead for us!

I'll tell you what I've told other people:  don't ask questions you don't want to know the answers to.

okey dokey then, good luck~!

Very well put Nancy

My two cents worth: Premarital counsel is soooo helpful.  It's not about whether or not you should marry someone.  It just opens your eyes to some issues that you should be aware of and things that you should think about or discuss before before you get married.  Twelve years later, we still talk about what we learned then and how it has helped us in our marriage.

I applaud you for bringing this topic here.  This is a fun and safe community to share in and really most people just desire to be helpful.  My last thought would be on your comment about "being a P.I. when you need to."  Do you really want to have to be a P.I.? With trust, you shouldn't.  There's a lot to be said for maturity and growing up and I wish you the best of luck. 

Hmmm...that is a tough question. I look at myself. I used to be super suspicious and jealous, very, very sensitive, and more than a little dramatic in my relationship.

Now, I take things as they come, am not jealous, am much less sensitive, and have dropped the dramatics but have I REALLY changed? I think I probably simply have just toned down my behaviors, grown up a lot, and haven't had a reason to go back to my old ways. I have a lot of trust issues although my husband never did a thing to make me have them. Those issues came long before I met him.

I think I have changed my behaviors but underneath it all, I probably still have the same insecurities I always did. I simply have made great strides in containing certain behaviors and to let life happen rather than try to prevent things that MIGHT happen.

I think if you trust your fiance and don't feel the need to check up on him, it's all good. He may have changed for good. If he hasn't, you'll know it and can deal with it then. I hope all goes well and congrats on your impending marriage.

I'm glad it gave you things to discuss also Angela. It does open your eyes for discussions, things you may not have thought about. That what I ment, it not just the "DAY" it's a lifetime.

I think trust and jealousy are the worst, and cause the most problems with marriage. Someone said one time that I heard, they don't really have to do with the other person, it's the person who has the feelings that has the insecurities. Maybe they do not trust themselves, and jealousy is about being insecure. To be in a relationship without Trust, what can of relationship is there? There has to be trust, or really you have nothing. Knowing that person to be there, no matter what. That person is your soft place to fall. I've seen to many people hurt, because there was no trust, I'll tell you it's not a good site to hear your friend tell you about their problems. One friend, her other half, they were not married at the time. He got picked up for soliciting a Hooker, claimed he said he was innocent, set-up. She ended up finding more and more about his habits. Strip joints, etc., very hurtful in the end. But she believed in him. She is now happily married to someone she trusts and no jealousy. Just go with your gut, listen to the inner self. Any doubts, mmmm, not good.

Good Morning!!

I'm really enjoying everyone's input in this subject. It's nice to hear both sides of what I should do. Since we got together when we were so young, I believe it's more of a growing up thing. I fully trust him now and we're leaving the past behind us. Thanks everyone for your input, I appreciate it!

Good Morning to you!

Being young, doesn't mean the other person is the same. It is a growing up process. I hope all works out for you. Best wishes, and a lifetime of happiness. That is important to put the past behind. There are no guarentee's in life. Love is always taking a chance. If a problem arises, the best thing to do is turn to each other, not away from each other.  I do wish you the best. Pobody is Nerfect! And everyone deserves a second chance. One last thing, if there is a mistake made, 1st time it's shame on you, and if it happens again it shame on me. Bless your future! And Happiness!

Thank you, darlyn63. I started this thread in hopes of everyone telling of past experiences, I didn't want it to turn personal but I have enjoyed the input! Anyone else have a past experience with someone that had overcome a problem in their life (ie: drugs, alcohol, money, smoking, etc...)? I don't want this conversation to stop.