Thank you, thank you, thank you for letting us know your preferences and ideas surrounding badges!

I want to keep you in-the-know about what we are hoping to implement based on your feedback.

We have compiled your thoughts and are looking at the problems that were expressed repeatedly. We want to take action on these issues in upcoming revisions.

First, we also think it would be awesome to allow all members to custom select which badge follows. This would be a huge project that would require a significant amount of re-design and new technical development. So in the next phase of Viewpoints VIP Program updates... we don't think we will be able to implement that type of change.

Please keep in mind that we are always up for enhancing and improving functionality on the site so just because things are as they are now doesn't mean they will never change.

Here are the top resolutions we are contemplating:

• On Jan. 1 each year, each member who registered and uploaded a profile photo during the previous year could receive 2,000 bonus points for the new year. This will be a good will credit to keep momentum up. Newbies get a huge boast in points when they join and upload a profile photo... we want to give everyone the added bonus each year so you don't lose out on the 2,000 points. See the various ways you earn points here.

• The current status badge, meaning the up-to-date rank one holds will follow them throughout the site until they earn a new badge. Having highest badge from past years as the "follower" badge is not very intitiutive and feels bazaar to most people.

• We will reconsider badge colors by year and year display. Members who stay around for a couple years (many, many years!) will have a long list of the same color badges with different years. This may not feel very compelling to have a stack of badges if they are not very distinguishable from one another.

Additionally, we'd like to run special bonus programs in the future. For example, we could run a Double Points Day/Week/Month for writing reviews so you can earn even more!

My thoughts

bonus points only to people who load up profile pictures that are pictures of them..pretty pictures of dogs, cats, babies, sunsets used as your primary profile photo shouldn't count for points.  Nothing wrong with them, but Profile photos for points should be pictures of the folks writing the viewpoints... what do they look like...  these are the people of viewpoints... etc. etc...   primary photos should go up and stay up for more than a month as well... as in pretty pictures of sunsets and dogs as your primary profile photo... no bonus points....

I don't like bonus programs with double points day/week/month myself... I think that encourages more gaming type behavior...  but that's just me and what I've seen at other sites... this site is a little different so far than other sites...to be sure..  better, kinder, gentler  etc.. (and I'm not being sarcastic about that...)..

You might create a special place to earn bonus points for writing specific essays on a subject or some hot products.   You might award bonus points for uploading pictures of a certain type for a widely distributed marketing campaign...

You might give bonus points to people who click more than 100 helpful votes per month.   Encourage people to use that feature more.

I'd encourage more input from people before any decisions are made.. unless the decisions have already been made and this forum and discussion is more a litmus, test the waters kind of exercise....

if you want to gather more data...  give people more time...

Some members take several days to respond ....may only check the boards every couple of days; etc. etc.

Different colors for different years on badges seems like a great idea.

Several people have commented that they DO like highest badge from past years.  I'd suspect members of a year or less DON'T like that idea or don't care and wouldn't vote for an idea like that anyway.

  Ask people who've been here two or more years.   It may be a programming nightmare to have people choose what they want and NEVER be possible, it might not be possible to have highest badge  in the last 18 months or 14 months either... don't know...

those are my thoughts...

Thanks ...

ChrisJarmick said…

bonus points only to people who load up profile pictures that are pictures of them..pretty pictures of dogs, cats, babies, sunsets used as your primary profile photo shouldn't count for points.  Nothing wrong with them, but Profile photos for points should be pictures of the folks writing the viewpoints... what do they look like...  these are the people of viewpoints... etc. etc...   primary photos should go up and stay up for more than a month as well... as in pretty pictures of sunsets and dogs as your primary profile photo... no bonus points....

 

That would be pretty difficult to do automatically... and I'm sure the VP doesn't have the time to check photos for "is that this person yes or no?".  I say the points once a year for 1 profile pic really aren't that big of a deal in the big scheme of things.

BTW, This thread has been up for quite awhile, as well as various related threads. VP has gotten tons of feedback.  I'm sure they will be looking to constantly rework/improve the program and feel that whatever steps they take as the second draft of it should be fine.

Hi Chris!

No worries, we have not made final decisions. This thread has been up for about two weeks and we are remain open to ideas and feedback. I felt it was a good time today to post an update on what we're hearing and thinking.

We respect and understand your concern over bonus point programs and gaming/abuse. Many folks have expressed that same concern over voting to gain points. For example, one could vote on a ton of reviews (helpful or not helpful) and get a ton of points without even reading the reviews. What are your thoughts there on how we could prevent abuse if we opened up points for voting? An idea was to only allow so many votes per day/session, etc...This would prevent gaming but would it feel very limiting?

Thanks,

Meredith

The current status badge, meaning the up-to-date rank one holds will follow them throughout the site until they earn a new badge. Having highest badge from past years as the "follower" badge is not very intitiutive and feels bazaar to most people.

Hi Meredith:

So does this mean that everyone starts from scratch on January 1?   For instance, if you make Advisor in June '09, and VIP in December '09, then what is your badge for January '10?  If previous years don't count because they are counter-intuitive and bizarre, then I'm assuming you would go from VIP '09 until you earn the next badge "Contributor '10".  Am I understanding this correctly?  (I'm just using those badges as an example, the question applies across the board for each level). 

Thanks.

p.s.  Whoever is responsible for the badge graphics, I really love them.  They are so colorful but not overdone, and really pop against the blue/white Viewpoints color scheme!

Hi!

As it's designed now, your highest badge ever earned should follow you regardless of the year it was earned. So let's take you for example - you have VIP '08 following you although your current rank today is Advisor '09. This is what we are hearing feels bizaar and counter-intuitive. It sounds like people expect to see the badge you earned during the current year, not the highest one you've ever earned in the past.

In your example above, you are correct. If you have VIP '09, then it would follow you into 2010 until you achieve Contributor '10. Remember, this is just what we are thinking will be a potential solution. Nothing is final and no changes have been made yet.

Your points do start over each new year as the program is designed now. Your historically-acquired badges never go away... they just don't all follow you.

Several people also asked why we aren't doing lifetime points versus yearly points. The thinking is that we want to give new people a shot at some of the awards too!

Vytas lead the design of badge graphics! He did a great job :)

Hope this helps make sense of it all!

Thanks,

Meredith

In terms of rewards for clicks of Helpful votes... 

There will be some abuse of it... but if you awarded a modest amount of points for say 100  helpful votes per month it would boost clicks and not make anything to... um.. wonky....   And I' make one reward... for 100 or over...not a tier system that WOULD encourage abuse.. like  100 points for 100 clicks  and 300 points for 250 clicks or something...   Awarding something would get a lot of people ( I suspect) in the habit of clicking on the helpful buttons.. which takes an extra few seconds of time if you are reading several reviews.   If you know you get a few extra points for it.. your likely to try to do it.

We've been talking about how people, even the best of us.. don't always remember to click on the buttons...

this might help develop new habits.

Viewpoints doesn't run all that fast for me, and I have a quick FiOS connection. Voting on a review is not just click-click-click -- it's click-wait-scroll-click and it takes a few seconds. If one point was awarded for a helpful vote, it would be time consuming to build up many points. Trying to collect 100 points is tedium times two. If you want to build points, it's MUCH faster to play word games in the forums. I like the idea of awarding points for voting... maybe that could be a perq reserved for Advisors and VIPs.

--Bob

I think Chris is right about tiers being a possible issue. Like saying so many points for 100 HVs and so many for 250, etc. if you do that per day/week/month. Perhaps a person could gain a certain number of points when they HV....100 times for instance within a month. If they go over, great but no extra points.

I think there should be incentive to vote but we don't want to have people click haphazardly although...if you give points just for VOTING as opposed to giving Helpful votes, that could help. That is, if I see a mumbo jumbo review and mark it Not Helpful, that would count toward my overall voting for the week/month/whatever time frame. That would actually encourage people to weed out the baddies (The true not helpful reviews.) and alert VP to them.

So my suggestions is that if you decide to give points for voting, it should be for voting not just for Helpful Votes. That, of course, means people could gain points by NHing people for no reason if they are so inclined but I would hope that VP has a way to see if someone is abusing the NH voting and doing it for no good reason.

Whew...now I confused myself.

I will say I think people should just have their current year's badge regardless of what it is. When 2010 comes, we keep what we had in 09 until we gain a new badge. I don't love going all the way down to the start again but I will live, I am sure. I thought as it stood, you kept the year prior's badge until and unless you surpassed it this year. I didn't realize right now that the highest badge ever was following people meaning they could have a badge from 07 next to their name which I think is confusing and strange.

I'll be back when I make sense because I really didn't in this post. I know what I mean. The words aren't saying what I mean though!

bump to top .. so more notice the thread and perhaps comment

I am so new that just the idea of earning  a badge at all is very exciting.

I may have a more definite opinion after a year or so.

bkovacs said…

I'd like to see the badges work the way pictures do on a review. I'd like to be able to drag the positions of the badges around, and have the first one (the one on the top-left) be the one that follows me.

Great Idea...then we will have the option to change around what badge follows us.

Would it be TOO wonky to have it randomly change? :)

Can I just add that I LOVE the new VIP program? 
I love visiting my friends and seeing what badges they have accomplished easily!!!

Kudos.

I'm confused. My profile says I have over 4,000 points, but I still have no badges.

If points were given for voting it could be only if person also leaves a comment showing they read the review.

I think the current VIP program has for the most part been extremely well thought out.  I think that one's highest earned badge (and the year it was earned) is the badge that should follow you.  But I also like that the counters are reset each year so that newer members have a chance to walk around with well deserved honors and not be at a permanent disadvantage to longer-term members.

I do think that some point reward should be developed for rating and commenting.  I think it important that members (myself included) should spend a little more time reading/rating/commenting on reviews of other members.  The site continues to feel a little light in the member feedback area.

Overall, I think the program so far has been extremely well implemented.  Kudos.

On a side note: If someone has their reviews removed their "review reads" and their "points" should be subtracted as well.  It doesn't make sense to see a particular user with 0 reviews that has a badge right now.  

vivasuzi said…

On a side note: If someone has their reviews removed their "review reads" and their "points" should be subtracted as well.  It doesn't make sense to see a particular user with 0 reviews that has a badge right now.  

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TOTALLY agree. If you delete (Can we even delete a review?) a review or if one was removed for inappropriate content, you (the universal you) should not be allowed to keep your points. Particularly if people are gaming and writing nonsense reviews and we have to weed them out, report them, and VP has to delete the reviews. I have seen a case of a reviewer with no reviews but a badge that was not just for uploading a pic, opening an account, and doing things on the boards (They haven't done anything here). That was perplexing to me.

I can see where someone who comments and rates a lot of reviews, but doesn't contribute review COULD get a badge and that might be a little odd.   If you don't have ANY reviews... if you have deleted your reviews or closed your account... you should not have a badge showing....I agree with that.

vivasuzi said…

On a side note: If someone has their reviews removed their "review reads" and their "points" should be subtracted as well.  It doesn't make sense to see a particular user with 0 reviews that has a badge right now.  

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Hi Vivasuzi,

You bring up a good point.

Points should be deducted when reviews are removed, thus deducting points for reads. Sometimes it may take 30 minutes for the system to update reflecting the deduction of points. I found an example where someone's reviews were removed but they're profile page still display reads. This is a bug we have logged to investigate. The system was designed to deduct points when content is removed. 

Thanks!

Meredith

Hi Patty,

Members cannot delete a review once it's published. Only draft reviews can be deleted by the member. Anytime a member wishes to delete a review, they must send us a message or report via customer service (the "help" link.)

Please see my comment above in response to Vivasuzi about points being removed for reads when reviews are removed. Perplexing indeed! We will investigate as that seems to be buggy.

Thanks!

Meredith

Status badges, we get badges?  OK, I knew that.  I just like to talk/type, simple as that. There seems to be alot of overthinking this stuff...IMHO....just wonky 'ol me ;)

This is a business I know and reviews are important.  Yes ~ the badges are important also.  Ya'll do have a cool site here Meredith, thanks for all your hard work!   I'll go dip my head back in the rainbucket now ;)

Meredith said…

Hi Patty,

Members cannot delete a review once it's published. Only draft reviews can be deleted by the member. Anytime a member wishes to delete a review, they must send us a message or report via customer service (the "help" link.)

Please see my comment above in response to Vivasuzi about points being removed for reads when reviews are removed. Perplexing indeed! We will investigate as that seems to be buggy.

Thanks!

Meredith

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LOL, I have been here from the start and I didn't even know if we could delete reviews. Obviously I never tried.

Thanks for the info. I have not wanted to delete a review, rewrite perhaps, but not delete.

I'm sure it will all be straightened out soon with the points thing,

I've never wanted to delete any of my reviews, thank goodness.  What I have wanted, though, is the ability to correct mistakes when adding a product that's not already on the site nor on Shopping dot com's database and not have to bother Viewpoints staff in order to correct errors I make.  It certainly would make things go a bit easier...at least for me.

As for the whole VIP badge thing...I have days in which I like the changes, and others when I wish things had stayed pretty much the way they were before.  I'm still not really....thrilled....about the whole "we have to start over from scratch in January" concept...it seems fair and I'll go along with it since I'm pretty much a comformist as far as these things go, but I still have....concerns.

We aren't really starting over. We will always be on the leader boards and we will always have our previous badges. Trust me, it's hard for me to think of starting over too. I have worked hard for the badges I have. But hey,. I'll just do it again. If I can't, well, I gave it a shot.

Of course I say this now but will be all whiny faced when I see a "Contributor" badge next to my name after all this time. Oh oh, I already have a whiny face thinking about it. I'm starting to not like the starting over as much as I thought. :/

PattyTherre said…

We aren't really starting over. We will always be on the leader boards and we will always have our previous badges. Trust me, it's hard for me to think of starting over too. I have worked hard for the badges I have. But hey,. I'll just do it again. If I can't, well, I gave it a shot.

Of course I say this now but will be all whiny faced when I see a "Contributor" badge next to my name after all this time. Oh oh, I already have a whiny face thinking about it. I'm starting to not like the starting over as much as I thought. :/

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I really do not like this concept much. I would rather keep my badge from this year, then when I reached the required amount of points, get the next badge.  Sort of like the old Writer 1, 2, 3, 4 and Publisher's Circle system we used to have where once you reach a certain level, that's it...you don't need to "reboot" on January 1st.

Why can't we simplify this rather than have a complicated system that depends way too much on way too many variables?

I like the idea of being able to order them yourself, but I totally see why it is set up the way it is. 

I also agree with the idea of making each year a different color.

When making a decision that will effect many people, I look to the old maxim attributed to Abe Lincoln: "You can please some of the people all of the time, or all of the people some of the time"

I thought the maxim was "You can fool all the people some of the time, and you can fool some of the people all of the time, but you can't fool all the people all of the time."

Still, I totally get what you're trying to say.

To be honest, I like most of the features of the VIP program.  I'm just not too happy with that one feature.

Meredith said…

Hi!

As it's designed now, your highest badge ever earned should follow you regardless of the year it was earned. So let's take you for example - you have VIP '08 following you although your current rank today is Advisor '09. This is what we are hearing feels bizaar and counter-intuitive. It sounds like people expect to see the badge you earned during the current year, not the highest one you've ever earned in the past.

In your example above, you are correct. If you have VIP '09, then it would follow you into 2010 until you achieve Contributor '10. Remember, this is just what we are thinking will be a potential solution. Nothing is final and no changes have been made yet.

Your points do start over each new year as the program is designed now. Your historically-acquired badges never go away... they just don't all follow you.

Several people also asked why we aren't doing lifetime points versus yearly points. The thinking is that we want to give new people a shot at some of the awards too!

Vytas lead the design of badge graphics! He did a great job :)

Hope this helps make sense of it all!

Thanks,

Meredith

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I'm so confused. So, in 2008 I achieved VIP status and that is the badge that is the one following me right now.

So far for 2009 I have an Advisor badge. If I don't get any further than Advisor in 2009 will the new badge that follows me in 2010 be Advisor 09 or do I have to start from scratch and be a Contributor?

If that's the case, I'd rather it just stayed as PC.