I am suspicious of motives and I am saddened by a lack of tolerance and compassion on all sides of discussions and debates that occur.

Religions brings out the best and unfortunately the worst in people and for a variety of reasons.

So... to look at a slightly more neutral example...

Look at what happened a few years ago when people vehemently protested against the war in Iraq.

Bush and many in the party started saying you were anti-american and you were insulting the members of the military if you were against the war.

In almost every case.. the people who are against the war in Iraq, respect the people who have volunteered for the military service and believe in some way they are mis-used by being used in the Iraq war.

Yet, messages get twisted and people are labeled, discounted, mis-understood.  It's often easier to NOT have to think about something, not to take the time to understand what someone is saying or trying to say.  

It is easy to play it safe, avoid controversy, not say what you feel, not reach out to others, jump to conclusions, mis-read intent.

If we insist everyone has to earn our respect... we have an uphill battle within ourselves in trying to respect anyone and a license to disrespect or not think about someone else with any degree of compassion or understanding.

If instead we actively try to find something to respect about another person, no matter how much that person differes (or seems to differ) from who we are (idealogically, spiritually, politically, culturally and economically) then we've got a chance to improve our communities and planet.

AnnaBanana said…

It's okay if you just can't believe there is a God.  Faith is a gift, not a conscious decision. 

With all due respect, I hope this isn't all going to escalate wildly, like some other sensitive subjects have here on the Boards.

 

---

Worry not Anna, we are keeping a watchful eye on the boards in an attempt to ensure things do not get out of hand again.  So far this discussion has been respectful, and I appreciate the tone and tenor of the debate. 

Vincent

(Sorry about the italics in the previous post. They must've stayed on from the quote.)

I thinker smblomker just made a very human mistake by calling the two threads by the same name. One "God" thread asks, does God exist?, and the other, how did He get created, if He does exist? I guess we should all be more specific with our titles.

I know that sometimes (like now, if someone doesn't submit something while I'm typing) I have two posts in a row, but honestly, it's not to get more points! It's just because I think of more to write after I hit "submit."

pitcherday said…

This reminds me about when people ask "can God make a rock so big he can't lift it?"

I just have to say... IDK. I need to work on the small stuff first. If I busy myself with existential-type questions, I may lose sight of the fact that I need to work on my own spirituality first.

---

That 'joke' is part of a wonderful George Carlin routine and he probably wrote it.

Once upon a time in high school (sociology class) we were asked to write an essay. I asked that question. My teacher answered on paper "He always was."

Jo said…

Once upon a time in high school (sociology class) we were asked to write an essay. I asked that question. My teacher answered on paper "He always was."

---

"He always was" what?  Such a proclamation defies the rules of logic and it is the easy way out that allows one to explain God's existence in any rational way.  Even God had to have a beginning; he or she had to come from somewhere!     

If you look at a circle....you could say it has no beginning or end.   No, not all circles are drawn... some circles exist in nature or as a result of a vibration and you can go all the way back to the beginning of the Universe and...  Where did the first bit of energy come from?   Out of what?  The very first spark that began the universe... where did THAT begin?

So the concept of an omnipotent being with no beginning and no end that we can't understand might possibly be a little better understood with the concept of a circle.

I still want to KNOW of course how could this be since there's no logic to it... but there's no way of explaining the first bit of energy that started the Universe exept to say...with a shrug (because we should be humble like that),  if just was, I guess.

It's perhaps like this italic thing?  It just happens that suddenly we are all writing in italics...  (can I start a thread   Is it a message or a bug ?  can I .. can I?  Huh?  Okay I'll behave). 

That's a lot of our problem, I think.  If we can't explain it with human logic, it can't be true!  I say that's pretty arrogant of us.  Not everything conforms to our understanding of things and we just have to take them as they are.

I understand and respect everyone's viewpoint (no pun intended, but cute).  Just because I disagree doesn't mean I don't repsect it.   In my mind, God always just was and time exists differently for Him (we use Him because that's how the Bible refers to Him.  It's something for humans to latch on to. God is really spirit in nature and I believe gender neutral).  I don't pretend to understand, nor do I think I need to in this life.  No one "created" God, He just IS.

TheBard said…

He always was" what?  Such a proclamation defies the rules of logic and it is the easy way out that allows one to explain God's existence in any rational way.  Even God had to have a beginning; he or she had to come from somewhere!     

 

That only makes sense from our limited human perception. I asked earlier, where did time begin, where does the universe start and where does it end? Logic fails to explain certain concepts, and the idea of creation is one of them. How did something come from what was once, quite necessarily and logically, nothing? In the very beginning of it all, where did the gases come from, where did any matter whatsoever come from? Think about it and you'll begin to understand that logically, God is the only answer. Yes it is a strange thing to fathom, but as humans we were simply tossed out of the debate early on and sent home with a pretty decent consolation prize - Faith.

 

---

rustaddsflavor said…

TheBard said…

He always was" what?  Such a proclamation defies the rules of logic and it is the easy way out that allows one to explain God's existence in any rational way.  Even God had to have a beginning; he or she had to come from somewhere!     

 

That only makes sense from our limited human perception. I asked earlier, where did time begin, where does the universe start and where does it end? Logic fails to explain certain concepts, and the idea of creation is one of them. How did something come from what was once, quite necessarily and logically, nothing? In the very beginning of it all, where did the gases come from, where did any matter whatsoever come from? Think about it and you'll begin to understand that logically, God is the only answer. Yes it is a strange thing to fathom, but as humans we were simply tossed out of the debate early on and sent home with a pretty decent consolation prize - Faith.

 

---

Granted, our understanding of the universe is limited by a number of variables, but we learn more and more about the vacuum in which we live every day.  However, lack of understanding and knowledge does not lend itself to an everlasting being who, or whom created all that we see and experience. 

"How did something come from what was once, quite necessarily and logically, nothing?"  Exactly, where did God himself, come from?  I reject the answer that he "always was," or that he is "everlasting!" 

And I reject the notion that logic fails to explain creation, Darwin's Theory of Evolution goes a (very) long way in explaining the origins of all life on the planet. And astronomers are learning more and more about the beginnings of our wondrous universe even as I type these words.  No I am at a loss to completely understand the Big Bang Theory, and my mind shuts down when I try to contemplate the vastness of space with it BILLIONS of stars and galaxies, but that does not compel me to believe in God.  Just the opposite; how could one being have amassed so much power?  And what is its source?

Why faith and to what end?          

 

---