General Discussion Board

Looking for feedback: Ratings, Reviews, Quick Reviews-- Oh, my!

vivasuzi — Fri, 07 Nov 2008 05:18:33 GMT

I think a lot of you need to start looking at soundbites differently. They aren't meant as standalone "this tells me everything" reviews. They are meant as something that you consider as part of a whole collection. I don't rate soundbite only reviews at all, but I do think they help in the whole scheme of things and they help answer the question of "how many people love or hate this product?"

Maybe more people would be happier with soundbite only things if they were on a separate tabs from reviews. Then we could just browse through them real quick without having to click them all to open them up.

Looking for feedback: Ratings, Reviews, Quick Reviews-- Oh, my!

GigiandAdonai — Fri, 07 Nov 2008 05:14:17 GMT

Ditto with LadyMagic--I write too much to get just a rating or a review but I'm glad they're putting the memo that it's ready to be published as a review because sometimes I have forgotten to put a tag.

I am also tempted to vote no on a rating without anything but my heart says don't be mean so I just go on to the next review. Sometimes I will still leave a comment so the "author" knows I saw the soundbite. Some of the soundbites are pretty good and self-explanatory, to a point.

Looking for feedback: Ratings, Reviews, Quick Reviews-- Oh, my!

LadyMagic — Fri, 07 Nov 2008 03:27:02 GMT

PattyTherre said…
I think "real" reviews should require I AM tags, pros/cons, title, and over 500 CHARACTERS (not words). That would be about 100 words. Those would count toward people's review count.

I think the other things (ratings/quick reviews) should not be counted toward anyone's rep.

Here's where I get confused. I will go to a product and see that are 4 "reviews" and there are three thumbs up and one thumbs down. I will read the reviews and the real reviews all have the thumbs up. Then I will get to a no word rating with a "This stinks" title and a thumbs down. I think it really hurts the rating system to allow people to rate things without at least explaining why something stinks (They can muster a line or two).

I think we need reviews of all lengths and I have found short reviews to be helpful to back up the longer reviews' data. But I really don't like empty reviews with just a title and a rating or reviews with three words. I think anyone, even the busiest person on earth, can manage a couple of lines of text. They took the time to go to the listing and rate it, how hard is it to write a few words about that rating? Even: "This mascara flakes and clumps. It's also too expensive," helps me to understand why it stinks.

If we have ratings that are wordless, I don't think their ratings and thumbs up/down should be folded into the product or service's overall rate. I just don't think it's fair to the product or service.

I understand people not wanting to bother with tags, pros and cons, or verbose reviews. But I really believe people can muster up a FEW words to back up what they are rating. As you can tell, I am not a fan at all of the wordless reviews/ratings/quick reviews. I put no credence at all into them and I feel they are not helpful. If anything, they're confusing. If we, the long time members, wonder where the review is when we get to a rating, what do visitors think?

I definitely agree that the ratings/quick reviews should be at the bottom of all reviews.

The filtering and other things mentioned are all good ideas.

EDIT: No lie. I just read this after doing something else and I thought, hmm, that person's a jerk. AND IT WAS ME. I don't have my pic so I didn't know who wrote it. Haha. I thought I'd share. I'm just cranky. Sorry.

I agree with everything you said, Patty!

I think quick reviews/ratings should not be added toward a rep. Also I can't give a positive vote on an empty review or a review with no helpful info. It's tempting to click on "no" because it was not helpful. So I abstain from clicking. If it's a product I've been researching because I'm considering purchasing it, I sometimes ask for info.

Short reviews can be good if they have useful info. I haven't always been able to write lengthy reviews. I am working on some longer ones though.

I want all my reviews to count toward my rep. So I'm fine with what we've been doing. I will not be doing any ratings/quickie reviews.

The new ideas are interesting to me. This whole board is interesting... I was a bit confused a bit about the filtering but I think I've got it straightened out now. : )

Looking for feedback: Ratings, Reviews, Quick Reviews-- Oh, my!

Meredith — Tue, 04 Nov 2008 19:37:35 GMT

We're hearing ya on the increased required character count. Here's where we think we are headed at this point:

What is the difference between a "quick review" and a "review"?

A review requires a sound bite, star rating, I Am tags and at least 500 characters of text. Reviews are for sharing a detailed rundown of your experience and opinion. Reviews contribute to your writer status so the more you write, the more your reputation grows.

A quick review only requires a star rating and a sound bite. Quick reviews allow you to add a meaningful blurb and rating without writing extra details. Quick reviews do not count toward writer status.

You will be able to find your combined "review" and "quick review" count on your "My Home" page under review total. Also, you will be able to access your quick reviews and reviews (filtered separately) from the "Reviews" section on your "My Home" page. Quick reviews can be upgraded to reviews at any time by adding the additional required fields and text using the edit button.

As Jolie mentioned earlier in this thread... we will always value the quality reviews over the one liner quick reviews by sorting them differently and allowing only complete reviews to count toward writer status.

Also, we will add messaging after publishing any contribution so you will know if you supplied all the fields necessary to qualify as a full review.

We will add an "official" description of quick reviews vs. reviews on the FAQ page once we finalize everything.

Again, thanks to everyone for voicing your opinion here! Now, let's go find out who our next President will be!!! The anticipation is maxing out here at the office!!!

Looking for feedback: Ratings, Reviews, Quick Reviews-- Oh, my!

Fardreamer — Tue, 04 Nov 2008 19:10:53 GMT

I agree, in principle, with your views on long reviews, Some people, particularly those who have had journalism backgrounds, can get away with writing long reviews and not bore the living daylights out of a reader, Others, who have probably been conditioned to "write long for the sake of length" by people who don't have any editorial experience, tend to add lists of ingredients or describe every possible use or function of a product without getting to the point.

Here, as in any consumer review site, talent will always rise to the top. What worries me, frankly, is having to cut through a thicket of not-very-insightful "this movie sux" musings,

Looking for feedback: Ratings, Reviews, Quick Reviews-- Oh, my!

Jolie — Tue, 04 Nov 2008 04:21:26 GMT

Who wants my job right now?! hehehhehehe.

We will always value a quality review over the one liners... and the one liners are not contributing the same way to your reputation. So, no worries there!

Looking for feedback: Ratings, Reviews, Quick Reviews-- Oh, my!

vetter2005 — Tue, 04 Nov 2008 04:19:08 GMT

Sort the reviews by completeness.... So that the most comprehensive reviews come to the top. However, if reviews with less information get lots of helpful votes, they can move higher up on the page.

I think clarifying what is considered a complete review is important for standardization and providing a mechanism to sort reviews by status. However, once an agreed upon standard is met for a complete review, a long review is not necessarily more informative than a short one. Some people are very verbose and have a great gift of words while others have a talent at being very succinct and say volumes with few words.

Looking for feedback: Ratings, Reviews, Quick Reviews-- Oh, my!

PattyTherre — Tue, 04 Nov 2008 02:09:50 GMT

Fardreamer said…
vivasuzi said…
I've already explained above, but even a star rating and a one-liner means something to me. We are more likely to get a lot of users and opinions if we allow for all types of ratings and/or reviews.
I, on the other hand, don't get anything out of simple star ratings or one-liners. Maybe it's because I've read way too many such one-liners at Amazon that I've developed such a strong dislike to the Ratings, but I really, really, don't want to see the site swamped by such bon mots as "This movie sux/rox."

I completely agree.

We don't want to make it hard for new or busy writers but we do want the content to be helpful in some small way. I don't think a "This movie sux" is helpful and I would hate to see the trend going toward more blank reviews or three word reviews.

I guess VP has to balance helpfulness with ease of use here. I wouldn't want that job. lol.

Looking for feedback: Ratings, Reviews, Quick Reviews-- Oh, my!

Fardreamer — Mon, 03 Nov 2008 20:11:58 GMT

vivasuzi said…
I've already explained above, but even a star rating and a one-liner means something to me. We are more likely to get a lot of users and opinions if we allow for all types of ratings and/or reviews.

I, on the other hand, don't get anything out of simple star ratings or one-liners. Maybe it's because I've read way too many such one-liners at Amazon that I've developed such a strong dislike to the Ratings, but I really, really, don't want to see the site swamped by such bon mots as "This movie sux/rox."

Looking for feedback: Ratings, Reviews, Quick Reviews-- Oh, my!

vivasuzi — Mon, 03 Nov 2008 17:17:20 GMT

Some people really don't want to review, but I think having access to give a star rating is valuable (as I already explained above).

The easier you make it for people to write a review OR leave a star rating, the more likely new members will join. If you start making it so they cannot leave a star rating at all unless they write 100 words (as some are suggesting), you'll end up with more people who decide the site is not for them.

Allow both, and separate them in some way so they count differently, and then I think you have the best of both worlds.

Looking for feedback: Ratings, Reviews, Quick Reviews-- Oh, my!

Jo — Mon, 03 Nov 2008 13:32:23 GMT

OldHippie said…
I've seen some reviews here that have NO words; just a title and star rating. What's with that? DUH?

That is called a rating - one of the things Viewpoints is trying to fix. You can rate anything -just give it stars. It won't count toward climbing up the ladder and will show up as a rating on your home page. Jo

Looking for feedback: Ratings, Reviews, Quick Reviews-- Oh, my!

OldHippie — Mon, 03 Nov 2008 13:23:39 GMT

I've seen some reviews here that have NO words; just a title and star rating. What's with that? DUH?

Looking for feedback: Ratings, Reviews, Quick Reviews-- Oh, my!

GigiandAdonai — Mon, 03 Nov 2008 09:31:30 GMT

I'm okay with it the way it is but don't think someone should get credit for a review toward the count that goes toward a writer's level if they lack x amt. of words and by that I mean enough to give a why they did or didn't like the product. Even if you say it has to be 100 words NOT characters long. At least the other readers will get some information.

I just hit Writer 3 and it wouldn't be fair to me and all the others who produce quality work to see someone else climb the ranks and basically have nothing but 5 stars to their credit.

Looking for feedback: Ratings, Reviews, Quick Reviews-- Oh, my!

Jolie — Mon, 03 Nov 2008 04:51:03 GMT

You guys are hard core. :)! That is why we love you!!!!!!!!!

We really appreciate the feedback. We will try and put our heads around the issue some more and come up with a compromise that works for both readers and our valued writers like you. I can promise you this-- we will always value your thoughtful reviews more than just rating-- that is for sure!

I dont know exactly where are going to land, so I will ask for your forgiveness upfront! hehehhehehe.

If you have an explicit recommendaiton, for dealing with:
1. Readers who dont care what something is called
2. Us valuing ratings versus reviews separately
3. Us giving you a way to upgrade your reviews
please feel free to email me directly. Our plan is to roll something out this month!

Looking for feedback: Ratings, Reviews, Quick Reviews-- Oh, my!

GigiandAdonai — Mon, 03 Nov 2008 04:43:04 GMT

I did the review on my digital camera and stove as the result of a "quick" review but by the time I wrote my review, there was nothing quick or short about it. I used the quick review as a suggestion tool for other items. Like I plan on reviewing my MP3 player at some point but it won't be a quickie. And I own 3 different style crock-pots so if I ever review them they wouldn't be quick reviews either.

I'm very pleased with the way my stats look so I guess to each his own.

Looking for feedback: Ratings, Reviews, Quick Reviews-- Oh, my!

LaurieM — Mon, 03 Nov 2008 04:31:38 GMT

I'm definitely not a fan of the ratings or the quick reviews and most likely will never do either. I am seeing so many of these quick reviews that don't even have a brand name. They say "I don't know" or they talk about a product they simply saw in a catalog and don't even own. It appears that the quality of reviews has gone down since the start of these quick reviews. I hope that the focus isn't on quanity instead of quality. I read one that gave an unknown make and model, 1 star and it said "I don't own a crock pot". There are a lot like that one out there! I see them all the time lately and have been marking them inappropriate.

Looking for feedback: Ratings, Reviews, Quick Reviews-- Oh, my!

vivasuzi — Mon, 03 Nov 2008 02:27:39 GMT

I've already explained above, but even a star rating and a one-liner means something to me. We are more likely to get a lot of users and opinions if we allow for all types of ratings and/or reviews.

Looking for feedback: Ratings, Reviews, Quick Reviews-- Oh, my!

GigiandAdonai — Mon, 03 Nov 2008 02:15:15 GMT

I agree with you 100%. We both like to write so we don't have a problelm with word count. Shoot, I don't even know how to be brief on comments. But I think someone should at least tell us why the did or didn't like a product/service, etc.

I get really frrustrated when I'm trying to research an item/service and click on a review and there's nothing there. I am so tempted to vote no but they wouldn't know that they got a negative vote and I personally, would get my feelings hurt if I knew someone gave me a negative vote.

I'm beginning to see whose reviews I can trust and I read my friends reviews daily and then I'll click on to another review of the same product. Sometimes I'll go back to my own reviews and read what others have written on that same product too.

I love your edit--sounds like you and I both are having slip-ups right now ;+)

Looking for feedback: Ratings, Reviews, Quick Reviews-- Oh, my!

PattyTherre — Mon, 03 Nov 2008 01:55:02 GMT

I think "real" reviews should require I AM tags, pros/cons, title, and over 500 CHARACTERS (not words). That would be about 100 words. Those would count toward people's review count.

I think the other things (ratings/quick reviews) should not be counted toward anyone's rep.

Here's where I get confused. I will go to a product and see that are 4 "reviews" and there are three thumbs up and one thumbs down. I will read the reviews and the real reviews all have the thumbs up. Then I will get to a no word rating with a "This stinks" title and a thumbs down. I think it really hurts the rating system to allow people to rate things without at least explaining why something stinks (They can muster a line or two).

I think we need reviews of all lengths and I have found short reviews to be helpful to back up the longer reviews' data. But I really don't like empty reviews with just a title and a rating or reviews with three words. I think anyone, even the busiest person on earth, can manage a couple of lines of text. They took the time to go to the listing and rate it, how hard is it to write a few words about that rating? Even: "This mascara flakes and clumps. It's also too expensive," helps me to understand why it stinks.

If we have ratings that are wordless, I don't think their ratings and thumbs up/down should be folded into the product or service's overall rate. I just don't think it's fair to the product or service.

I understand people not wanting to bother with tags, pros and cons, or verbose reviews. But I really believe people can muster up a FEW words to back up what they are rating. As you can tell, I am not a fan at all of the wordless reviews/ratings/quick reviews. I put no credence at all into them and I feel they are not helpful. If anything, they're confusing. If we, the long time members, wonder where the review is when we get to a rating, what do visitors think?

I definitely agree that the ratings/quick reviews should be at the bottom of all reviews.

The filtering and other things mentioned are all good ideas.

EDIT: No lie. I just read this after doing something else and I thought, hmm, that person's a jerk. AND IT WAS ME. I don't have my pic so I didn't know who wrote it. Haha. I thought I'd share. I'm just cranky. Sorry.

Looking for feedback: Ratings, Reviews, Quick Reviews-- Oh, my!

vivasuzi — Mon, 03 Nov 2008 00:21:05 GMT

That's interesting, I thought it was required for a review.

I like pros/cons though, it allows the user to sort reviews based on what people liked or didn't like. Often I'm reading a hotel review, for example, and I'll see a few ppl choose "rooms are dirty". I'll filter for those reviews to see what they said further. I encourage everyone to use pros and cons for that reason :)

Looking for feedback: Ratings, Reviews, Quick Reviews-- Oh, my!

GigiandAdonai — Sun, 02 Nov 2008 23:55:56 GMT

You don't even need the Pros OR Cons, just the soundbite, rating and tags. I have done a ton of reviews and I probably haven't done pros or cons on half and I have 101 reviews to my credit. I only add pros and/or cons if I am doing a review that has already been done. Like I said before, I think most people are going to put their pros and/or cons in the body of their review.

Looking for feedback: Ratings, Reviews, Quick Reviews-- Oh, my!

eryndiane — Sun, 02 Nov 2008 22:19:59 GMT

I think this sounds like a very logical way to streamline the review process.

Looking for feedback: Ratings, Reviews, Quick Reviews-- Oh, my!

LoveisJoy — Sun, 02 Nov 2008 17:29:43 GMT

vivasuzi said…
I like reviews of all lengths because, in my opinion, if you have 100 "ratings" that just give it a star rating and a one liner, that sometimes tells you more than having 5 "reviews". Why? Because if 90 ppl out of 100 say this product is 5 stars, I'm going to trust that a bit more than if 3 ppl out of 5 say it.
Ratings/short reviews/quick reviews/whatever you call them helps to bring in more star ratings for each product. So I'm all for them.
I like the idea of separating them though, and making it clear to the user which ones are actually reviews and which are one liners (why can we click a one liner if it doesn't go anywhere?)
Finally, I think about other sites I've been too as an example of something that works. People can leave a star rating AND a review OR they can just leave a star rating. Often a product will have "4 stars based on 200 ratings" and underneath it will say "read 50 reviews". So giving people the opportunity to RATE the product really helps bring more to each product so you really have abetter way to judge if this product is good or not.

You make a good point. I hadn't thought about it like this. I agree -- It would be less confusing if the one-liners weren't clickable since the link doesn't go anywhere.

Looking for feedback: Ratings, Reviews, Quick Reviews-- Oh, my!

vivasuzi — Sat, 01 Nov 2008 16:20:39 GMT

I sent Meredith an email before and she had them pull out what my ratings were. Turns out they were ALL missing I Am tags! I couldn't believe how many times I forgot to add them.

You don't need Pros AND Cons, just Pros OR Cons.

Looking for feedback: Ratings, Reviews, Quick Reviews-- Oh, my!

GigiandAdonai — Sat, 01 Nov 2008 15:54:22 GMT

As explained to me by Courtney: You don't have to list pros and cons in a review to get credit for it. I "think" the pros and cons are going to be coming from others who do the same review and don't want to duplicate your review. YOUR pros and cons will generally come in the body of your review. I, however, do add some of my own pros and cons so that they will jump out at the reader. If you have ANY ratings you would need to check all of your reviews and see which one may be missing one of the following: rating, soundbite, or not enough words and we're not sure what that count is. I have been keeping a personal list of all the reviews I submit and so far my review count and my list are the same. I hope this helps a little.

Looking for feedback: Ratings, Reviews, Quick Reviews-- Oh, my!

AnnaBanana — Sat, 01 Nov 2008 11:10:32 GMT

Hi, Jolie!

This was really a fascinating thread and your message explained a lot. I wish there was some way to "search" for those "ratings" which don't seem to be counting for us. My list of actual reviews is a few more than what I actually get credit for because some count as "ratings" yet I have looked through most of them and can't see anything missing except that in some I had "pros" listed at the bottom but no "cons". Could this be making a difference? I wouldn't mind fixing whatever is wrong on the "rating" ones if only I could find them! Well, thanks again for explaining so much. You and Meredith are doing such a great job! Have a nice weekend and incidentally I really enjoyed that Halloween picture!

Looking for feedback: Ratings, Reviews, Quick Reviews-- Oh, my!

vivasuzi — Sat, 01 Nov 2008 02:49:03 GMT

I like reviews of all lengths because, in my opinion, if you have 100 "ratings" that just give it a star rating and a one liner, that sometimes tells you more than having 5 "reviews". Why? Because if 90 ppl out of 100 say this product is 5 stars, I'm going to trust that a bit more than if 3 ppl out of 5 say it.

Ratings/short reviews/quick reviews/whatever you call them helps to bring in more star ratings for each product. So I'm all for them.

I like the idea of separating them though, and making it clear to the user which ones are actually reviews and which are one liners (why can we click a one liner if it doesn't go anywhere?)

Finally, I think about other sites I've been too as an example of something that works. People can leave a star rating AND a review OR they can just leave a star rating. Often a product will have "4 stars based on 200 ratings" and underneath it will say "read 50 reviews". So giving people the opportunity to RATE the product really helps bring more to each product so you really have abetter way to judge if this product is good or not.

Looking for feedback: Ratings, Reviews, Quick Reviews-- Oh, my!

GigiandAdonai — Sat, 01 Nov 2008 02:26:17 GMT

I guess I'm the odd ball out because I believe: "If it's not broke, don't fix it." I love to write so like many, my reviews are very lengthy. Therefore, I would have no problem meeting a minimal word requirement to get credit for a review.

When I posted x amt. of reviews but only got credit for y amt. I inquired with Courtney and found out it was because I forgot to add a tag; I added the tag and it became a review.

I agree with others who say the really short reviews aren't informative enough. "I liked this book or I loved this movie" doesn't cut it but on the flipside, that writer is contributing what they want. I took some suggestions from quick reviews but wrote longer reviews as a result.

I'm not competing with others for writing rank so if someone gets Writer 4 or PC for single paragraph reviews and I get writer 2 with 91 really long reviews then so be it.

I try to read a lot and vote on everything I read. I also try to leave comments to the writer so that they will know that I was one of the ones who read his/her review. I love reading my various friends and fans reviews just as much as I love writing and seeing my numbers climb. But in the end--this is just a wonderful place to be a part of and I will adapt to whatever changes come my way.

Looking for feedback: Ratings, Reviews, Quick Reviews-- Oh, my!

Fardreamer — Fri, 31 Oct 2008 16:14:05 GMT

Jolie said…
Hi all.
We wanted to get your feedback on a change we are considering....
As you all know, we are dealing with a challenge around ratings/reviews/quick reviews naming. People are kind of confused by ratings & quick reviews and how they are different from regular reviews. They aren't certain what constitutes a rating/quick reviews and how to upgrade it, etc.
We want to clean this up, but we are struggling with the best way to do it. So, we thought we would come to you, our trusty community!
Here is something we are considering... what do you think?
Make the move to call a review, a review.... No matter what form it takes- short or long, it is a review. Most people on the site don't understand the difference. So, why call it something different? This will make it easier for readers to understand.
Sort the reviews by completeness.... So that the most comprehensive reviews come to the top. However, if reviews with less information get lots of helpful votes, they can move higher up on the page.
Only count certain reviews toward your reputation. In order for a review to count toward your reputation, it must have: a soundbite, a rating, I AM tags, and at least 250 characters of text. So, for example, if you and I both wrote 25 reviews, but yours were ‘complete' and mine weren't, you would have status as Writer 1, but I would not. And, your reviews would appear above mine.
Lastly, we would add a filter to the reviews tab... allowing you to sort by quick reviews. This will allow you to upgrade any review that doesn't count toward your status.
What do you guys think? Are we crazy?

I've never been too crazy about the minimalistic Ratings/Quick Reviews thing. I've done one myself, and it has not had a lot of hits. Maybe you can consider renaming them to To the Point or something along those lines.

The sorting of reviews by completeness sounds good but I have to ask: Who is going to do the actual sorting? I'm not worried about my reviews not being considered "complete," since I tend to write somewhat long (some might even say over-long) ones, but is it going to be a human being doing the sorting or is it going to be software?

The reputation thing seems fair, I suppose.

The filters thing also sounds all right. I don't foresee any controversies popping up about this feature.

Looking for feedback: Ratings, Reviews, Quick Reviews-- Oh, my!

lilsquibb — Fri, 31 Oct 2008 14:41:12 GMT

Matt said…
I hear everyone on their preference for longer reviews. I agree with you that in general a longer review with more detail is more helpful. However, as we look to engage more people to provide insight into their personal experiences and as we attract more readers we are finding that not everyone has the time or inclination to either write or read the complete review. Ideally we will be able to design the interface so that it highlights the more complete reviews while still "backfilling" with the shorter reviews.
Does that make sense to all of you?

I don't mind the reviews that are a paragraph or so that talks some about just experience... it's the ones that are only a soundbite or a sound bite and one sentence that really don't add much to me. I don't think it's too much to ask to have people do up at least 4-5 sentences having to do with a product. Any other sites that take reviews are the same way. It still allows them to share their opinions yet provides something of use to the consumer searching for information.

Looking for feedback: Ratings, Reviews, Quick Reviews-- Oh, my!

mysticstarfish — Fri, 31 Oct 2008 14:04:38 GMT

I get what you are saying....how about keeping the quick reviews but don't allow the person to write the review. Instead of using tags is there a way to use a button/matrix instead....the person can enter the title of the review but they won't be able to write the review...they would have to click on pre managed buttons/matrix to review the product...ie..have buttons like: Not so good product or Awesome Product. Automate the Quick Review System. When people are looking for Quick Reviews you can then distinguish the two by putting that a Quick Review is Automated and does not contain detailed information. Maybe then you can keep both types of reviews. Also, I don't know if it's possible, but have Quick Reviews delete automatically after 6 months, especially if the writer has no furher contributions.

Looking for feedback: Ratings, Reviews, Quick Reviews-- Oh, my!

Matt — Fri, 31 Oct 2008 12:30:53 GMT

I hear everyone on their preference for longer reviews. I agree with you that in general a longer review with more detail is more helpful. However, as we look to engage more people to provide insight into their personal experiences and as we attract more readers we are finding that not everyone has the time or inclination to either write or read the complete review. Ideally we will be able to design the interface so that it highlights the more complete reviews while still "backfilling" with the shorter reviews.

Does that make sense to all of you?

Looking for feedback: Ratings, Reviews, Quick Reviews-- Oh, my!

krislynn — Fri, 31 Oct 2008 07:25:44 GMT

I'm in agreement with what everybody has been saying about the Quick Reviews. I haven't tried a Quick Review yet and to be honest I probably won't do one. The short sentences like "This is a great product" or "I don't like it" just isn't a review in my opinion. I think a review should have some requirements to be considered a review. A good solid review should be a minimum of 250 words (not characters) and include the usual soundbite, I AM tags, stars, pros, and cons.

Looking for feedback: Ratings, Reviews, Quick Reviews-- Oh, my!

LisaCarey — Fri, 31 Oct 2008 03:24:49 GMT

I am following many of you on this. It could be helpful to rate -- just stars and have it clearly called a rating -- but in many cases I don't really see the need for ratings when you can have quality reviews. Mike sums it all up as far as my opinion on quick reviews I think it's easy to write a quality review and keep it short and sweet (400 words) and give a person enough information to make an informed product decision.

As Mike said, the short two sentences of I really love this product don't reflect well and to me sometimes I feel like it jeapordizes the credibility of the site. I don't want elitism either, but there should be some form of guidelines for a review to count as a review.

Looking for feedback: Ratings, Reviews, Quick Reviews-- Oh, my!

MikeMaroon — Fri, 31 Oct 2008 03:18:29 GMT

TheBard said…

George you and I are in agreement here (don't faint); and Jo, I agree the long reviews about the meat and potatoes of a product may not be helpful to some, but are to others. If what was after here at Viewpoints is a body of (quality) reviews that not only inform, but are written by everyday people, then we cannot be afraid of getting detailed.
I state again that I believe the Quick Reviews are not informative and like George alluded to they take up valuable database space. I think I understand why they might be appealing, but I think you would get the same result from longer more detailed reviews. After all one of the purposes of Viewpoints is to make it feel like a community, and it does.
The reviewers who post here regularly all know each other-more or less-and that is what makes Viewpoints so enjoyable. I'm afraid the Quick Reviews will attract those who are not really vested in the site, or its mission, and what you may end up with is a plenitude of Quick Reviews by people who have little interest in the site as a whole. More comprehensive reviews demand more time at the site, and more investment in its mission and ultimately its success.

What he said.

I surely do understand the "takin' all comers" approach, but, if I'm an outsider looking for a good review and find a lot of stuff of dubious quality, then I'm turned off to that site. Look, there should be NO elitism here. But, nothing works without a workable standard. To write a review and have it called a review, it should meet a standard higher than a couple of sentences, pros cons, stars and I am tags. Mine tend to be a little long and I'm not advocating that. Just that the review should tell a reader

A: What the product is, in some detail.
B: An informed opinon as to the quality of it, more than "it's great!" or "it sucks!"
C: Does the reviewer recommend it?

I really don't like the Quick Reviews and can never see myself writing one, for better or worse :)

Everyone should write in their own style and feel comfortable here. However, if it looks like a duck but meows like a kitten, it's not really a duck.

Looking for feedback: Ratings, Reviews, Quick Reviews-- Oh, my!

mysticstarfish — Fri, 31 Oct 2008 03:13:17 GMT

As a reader of reviews, I hate to open a review and find "I hate this", or "it's garbage". I really do value the opinion of the reviews posted on VP. I recently needed a new dishwasher and read Rudixeno's guide to buying a new one, and then went and searched for dishwashers. Some of the reviews were no help whatsoever and others were quite helpful. What I am getting at is the quick reviews just give someone an opportunity to post and run. I don't believe they care about the quality of their review; they more or less just get it off their chests. The 250 word minimum is a good way to deter some of these bootleg reviews. I think boosting the minimum to 500 would be too much because as Jo said, some reviews just shouldn't be long.

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TheBard — Fri, 31 Oct 2008 02:39:58 GMT

George you and I are in agreement here (don't faint); and Jo, I agree the long reviews about the meat and potatoes of a product may not be helpful to some, but are to others. If what was after here at Viewpoints is a body of (quality) reviews that not only inform, but are written by everyday people, then we cannot be afraid of getting detailed.

I state again that I believe the Quick Reviews are not informative and like George alluded to they take up valuable database space. I think I understand why they might be appealing, but I think you would get the same result from longer more detailed reviews. After all one of the purposes of Viewpoints is to make it feel like a community, and it does.

The reviewers who post here regularly all know each other-more or less-and that is what makes Viewpoints so enjoyable. I'm afraid the Quick Reviews will attract those who are not really vested in the site, or its mission, and what you may end up with is a plenitude of Quick Reviews by people who have little interest in the site as a whole. More comprehensive reviews demand more time at the site, and more investment in its mission and ultimately its success.

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Jo — Thu, 30 Oct 2008 22:09:14 GMT

I agree with you George but as I wrote on another thread (I think I started it) we were looking for a GPS and among the dozens of places I went the reviews I found myself going to and using to make my decision could have been 2000 words long but I just read the first and last paragraph. Everything in between didn't mean a lot to me NOT because I couldn't understand it but because we wanted an easy to use, basic, inexpensive GPS system. I do think that there is a place for more detailed reviews and if someone is into the thing they are looking at (let's say I was going to buy a piece of fitness equipment) and knows a lot about it then they would have to have a lot more detail then what I was looking for.

I guess what Viewpoints wants is both. Jolie I recently read your most recent review and I noted that it was much shorter i.e. a paragraph that what you have written. Perhaps that was done intentionally; perhaps not. I am creeping into doing a paragraph on our DVD and my husband's cell phone for those who want to know - do I like it and why or don't I? I'm wayyyy OT here ...sorry.

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GeorgeChabot — Thu, 30 Oct 2008 21:18:08 GMT

No it doesn't, to be frank. The one word or three word entry fills up one more space in your data base. Is that it? But I can't open it because there is nothing there except the title. I'm in agreement with the members who stated the 250 WORD (not character) minimum to be counted as a review. I think the review ought to cover the who, what, why, when, and how about whatever it's about also. If you demand a little quality, people will rise to the occasion. JMTC

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jasyjen — Thu, 30 Oct 2008 20:16:05 GMT

I told you I felt dumb! LOL Thanks.

Looking for feedback: Ratings, Reviews, Quick Reviews-- Oh, my!

Jolie — Thu, 30 Oct 2008 19:39:34 GMT

We want to encourage anyone to participate on the site. The problem is for readers.... they dont understand all this fancy language-- ratings, reviews, quick reviews. So, for their sake, we just figured we could call everything a "review" but only those with 250 words (or 250 characters) would actually count toward your status. Also, we would always default to showing the more compelte reviews first... so that the reader always sees the good stuff first. Im not certain a reader cares what something is called. They just want to read the reviews and pray that they get the good ones first. Make sense?

Looking for feedback: Ratings, Reviews, Quick Reviews-- Oh, my!

GeorgeChabot — Thu, 30 Oct 2008 18:17:10 GMT

I'm a little at a loss. So if a person puts a name of a place or product in the system. A one word title like Great! and he gets credit for "writing" a review? I don't find those helpful. I can't even figure out what they are telling me about many times.

What exactly are you looking to get? A bunch of new listings in the database? I'm afraid I don't understand. ;>

Looking for feedback: Ratings, Reviews, Quick Reviews-- Oh, my!

LoveisJoy — Thu, 30 Oct 2008 18:12:13 GMT

lilsquibb said…
I would like to see more of a distinction between ratings and reviews on the product listing itself. Say there are 10 total listings and 5 are "complete" reviews and 5 are ratings, it would be nice for it to say that at the top instead of saying there are 10 reviews. Also maybe a way to list the ratings as separated from the reviews... maybe at the bottom of the listing of reviews (if that makes sense.) Like a "reviews" section and then at the bottom (or anywhere else on the page) a "ratings" section.

I agree with this. I would like to see reviews differentiated from ratings on the product pages - whether you call them ratings or reviews.

In fact, if you have a section for ratings, the heading also serves to define the distinction for users (such as, "Ratings - Quick Reviews" or "Reviews - Ratings Only") etc.

I don't think 250 characters is nearly enough as a review minimum if you are working toward a Writer designation. It isn't too difficult to come up with a 200 word review, in my opinion.

Writers could still write ratings and super short reviews, but it doesn't seem that it should count towards writer status. Otherwise, it brings down the value of the honor if you can make it to Writer 4 by writing 200 3-sentence reviews. JMHO

Looking for feedback: Ratings, Reviews, Quick Reviews-- Oh, my!

lilsquibb — Thu, 30 Oct 2008 16:12:41 GMT

I would like to see more of a distinction between ratings and reviews on the product listing itself. Say there are 10 total listings and 5 are "complete" reviews and 5 are ratings, it would be nice for it to say that at the top instead of saying there are 10 reviews. Also maybe a way to list the ratings as separated from the reviews... maybe at the bottom of the listing of reviews (if that makes sense.) Like a "reviews" section and then at the bottom (or anywhere else on the page) a "ratings" section.

Looking for feedback: Ratings, Reviews, Quick Reviews-- Oh, my!

TheBard — Thu, 30 Oct 2008 16:09:12 GMT

I like most of the new changes to the site, but I do not like the Quick reviews, I personally do not find them useful at all. One or two sentences on a product do not a useful review make. In order to make an informed buying decision on a given product I need more information about it other than "I like this product, it worked really well," or "This thing sucked, don't buy it."

I think in order for a review to be labeled as such, some time and consideration should given to the product and or service being reviewed, and that means at least 500 characters. And each review should include a sound-bite, photos (if they can be found), pros, cons, and "I AM" tags. These things to me show a commitment to the community and the wiliness to share your knowledge and experience about the product.

And if Viewpoints is going to continue to allow the posting of Quick Reviews, they should not be called reviews, nor should they count towards review totals, or be considered in the awarding of "Writer" titles. And they should be at the bottom of the sort list on any given product or service being reviewed.

Looking for feedback: Ratings, Reviews, Quick Reviews-- Oh, my!

vivasuzi — Thu, 30 Oct 2008 13:10:24 GMT

That's fine, but I'd rather have it right the first time rather than having to go back and fix them.

Looking for feedback: Ratings, Reviews, Quick Reviews-- Oh, my!

MikeMaroon — Thu, 30 Oct 2008 04:11:06 GMT

bkovacs said…
I like those changes a lot. The only suggestion I have is that reviews that count toward your reputation should have 500 characters, not 250. If you consider that the average word has five characters, a 250-character review has 50 words, or about three sentences. I sure wouldn't want my reputation built on reviews of three sentences.
Otherwise, all your other suggestions are excellent!
--Bob

I'm with you on this Bob, I like all the suggestions with the caveat you mentioned. I really don't think someone should move up in reputation writing tiny reviews that really tell us nothing. Building your reputation should take some effort, right?

Looking for feedback: Ratings, Reviews, Quick Reviews-- Oh, my!

Jolie — Thu, 30 Oct 2008 03:58:37 GMT

You would still be able to sort reviews and quick reviews... so you know directly which ones need to be updated.

Looking for feedback: Ratings, Reviews, Quick Reviews-- Oh, my!

Katrena — Thu, 30 Oct 2008 02:56:35 GMT

Jolie said…
Completeness would simply be if they filled out the 4 key fields... not be the volume in each... make sense?

Thanks for clarification on that.

Looking for feedback: Ratings, Reviews, Quick Reviews-- Oh, my!

SpokaneMan — Wed, 29 Oct 2008 22:34:06 GMT

I think this sounds like a good way to make the distinction, and that it will be easier for newer writers to understand it without having to do any research.

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vivasuzi — Wed, 29 Oct 2008 22:30:30 GMT

I like that the incomplete reviews can move up. I look at it this way, a "incomplete" review would need probably a lot of Helpful votes in order to appear up top, which means it must be really helpful. Second, it gives everyone of every writing status a chance to rise to the top - equal opportunity.

Looking for feedback: Ratings, Reviews, Quick Reviews-- Oh, my!

vivasuzi — Wed, 29 Oct 2008 22:25:43 GMT

edit.....i took out this part about completeness after I see Jolie's next statement that it's about having everything filled in, not about length......

My idea would be to make a clear distinction between a Review and a Rating. Either "rate this" or "review this". Because my problem has been that I am trying to do a full review but I forget something, like I forgert the I Am Tags, and then suddenly my review isn't counted in my main count and I have to go find the one I messed up. If there were 2 distinct links/choices, then you could require everything in a review and I wouldn't have to worry about forgetting anything.

Looking for feedback: Ratings, Reviews, Quick Reviews-- Oh, my!

njchicaa — Wed, 29 Oct 2008 21:26:26 GMT

I like all of those ideas, Meredith.

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bkovacs — Wed, 29 Oct 2008 20:34:18 GMT

jasyjen said…
I feel dumb for asking this, but.....what is a soundbite?

That's the title of your review.

--Bob

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jasyjen — Wed, 29 Oct 2008 20:09:12 GMT

I feel dumb for asking this, but.....what is a soundbite?

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Jolie — Wed, 29 Oct 2008 19:13:14 GMT

Completeness would simply be if they filled out the 4 key fields... not be the volume in each... make sense?

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Jo — Wed, 29 Oct 2008 17:51:14 GMT

I love this idea In order for a review to count toward your reputation, it must have: a soundbite, a rating, I AM tags, and at least 250 characters of text. So, for example, if you and I both wrote 25 reviews, but yours were ‘complete' and mine weren't, you would have status as Writer 1, but I would not. And, your reviews would appear above mine. However now that I see Bob did the numbers that's not right. Did you mean words?
Sort the reviews by completeness.... So that the most comprehensive reviews come to the top. However, if reviews with less information get lots of helpful votes, they can move higher up on the page. I like the completeness but an "incomplete" review can move up higher for which I won't go into here but it is a concern of mine.
Lastly, we would add a filter to the reviews tab... allowing you to sort by quick reviews. This will allow you to upgrade any review that doesn't count toward your status. So would this bring us back to the rating review or just be an internal thing?
I can't get rid of the 1:)

Looking for feedback: Ratings, Reviews, Quick Reviews-- Oh, my!

bkovacs — Wed, 29 Oct 2008 15:32:55 GMT

I like those changes a lot. The only suggestion I have is that reviews that count toward your reputation should have 500 characters, not 250. If you consider that the average word has five characters, a 250-character review has 50 words, or about three sentences. I sure wouldn't want my reputation built on reviews of three sentences.

Otherwise, all your other suggestions are excellent!

--Bob

Looking for feedback: Ratings, Reviews, Quick Reviews-- Oh, my!

AngelaWLaFon — Wed, 29 Oct 2008 15:07:30 GMT

I like it! I think this system will allow the difference to work itself out. Thanks, Angela

Looking for feedback: Ratings, Reviews, Quick Reviews-- Oh, my!

Katrena — Wed, 29 Oct 2008 15:03:46 GMT

I REALLY like the idea of being able to filter and sort by quick reviews, especially from my home page.

I like the idea of calling a rating a review.

How do you currently sort the reviews? What comes to the top currently?

Would pros/cons be considered more complete if both are listed? For example, if I review a product and cannot find anything negative to say, would the review appear more complete if I listed "I cannot think of any" under cons?

If you are sorting the reviews by completeness, does this mean that you would give priority to those who list higher numbers under each category? For example, if ten people have "complete" reviews, would someone who lists 25 "I am" tags be placed higher? Or would you have another way of determining placement?

I would really like to see a pop-up when I am ready to publish a review that would ask if I wanted to add elements such as an "I am" tag or pros/cons if I forgot to put those in before I publish a review.

Looking for feedback: Ratings, Reviews, Quick Reviews-- Oh, my!

Jolie — Wed, 29 Oct 2008 14:47:28 GMT

Hi all.

We wanted to get your feedback on a change we are considering....

As you all know, we are dealing with a challenge around ratings/reviews/quick reviews naming. People are kind of confused by ratings & quick reviews and how they are different from regular reviews. They aren't certain what constitutes a rating/quick reviews and how to upgrade it, etc.

We want to clean this up, but we are struggling with the best way to do it. So, we thought we would come to you, our trusty community!

Here is something we are considering... what do you think?

Make the move to call a review, a review.... No matter what form it takes- short or long, it is a review. Most people on the site don't understand the difference. So, why call it something different? This will make it easier for readers to understand.
Sort the reviews by completeness.... So that the most comprehensive reviews come to the top. However, if reviews with less information get lots of helpful votes, they can move higher up on the page.
Only count certain reviews toward your reputation. In order for a review to count toward your reputation, it must have: a soundbite, a rating, I AM tags, and at least 250 characters of text. So, for example, if you and I both wrote 25 reviews, but yours were ‘complete' and mine weren't, you would have status as Writer 1, but I would not. And, your reviews would appear above mine.
Lastly, we would add a filter to the reviews tab... allowing you to sort by quick reviews. This will allow you to upgrade any review that doesn't count toward your status.

What do you guys think? Are we crazy?