Education Discussions

no your not the only one. schools need to let the kids be more creative, be themsleves.`NOT WHAT THE SCHOOL SYSTEM WANTS THEM TO BE. It seems like they have one mold and is trying to fit every kid in the school to be exactly like that one mold

Hey, that's why my mom homeschooled us. If you have the time to invest in your kids lives it is the best option because you KNOW what your kids are learning and you can be sure that it is the important things. Besides, all that public schools teach children is how to do well in the working world. Education is supposed to train the mind. I think we should go back to apprenticeships so that kids can learn working skills there and be mentally trained in school.

The schools have to teach to the tests that the government makes them take to keep their funding so all the kids learn about is how to take tests. Here they take the FCat from 3rd grade on and at least half of the year is spent prepping them for these test. They have pep rallies and after school programs just so the kids learn how to pass these test.

I am a homeschooling parent via A Beka Academy - it can't be beat.  They provide all the books, DVDs or Online teachers, and the diploma is out of the state of Florida.  They are affiliated with Pennsacola Christian College in Pennsacola FL.  Not only is there LESS time invested because there is no time wasted as in the public school system but the classes are flexible.  I choose what subjects my son's with take and they choose what days they want to go to school.  Each of my son's have different preferences.  My oldest graduated 2 years ago - the graduation ceremony was nearly a week long on the campus of Pennsacola Christian College.  Meals, swimming, ice skating, etc. were some of the activities provided for the graduates and the family.  In addition to the regular classes my oldest completed a vocational program in HVAC - free in our state as in many states which holds college credits.  The second son just started his vocational program - 1/2 day for junior and senior year in auto body.  The oldest son graduated with 30 credits and the youngest will graduated with 32 credits.  The flexibility allows the family to travel, move (we are military) with no educational interuptions, and have great flexibility.  The flexible schedule benefits the student when employment is gained or when there are events of interest.  The program is around $1000.00 for all books and they handle the records.  When re-using books for a 2nd (consecutive) student(s) there is a substantial discount.  They have discounts for everything.  Check them out at www.abekaacademy.org

I agree that the schools teach way too much of the government tests and not enough of other important things. I wish I had the money to home school my girls. If you ever need proof that more people are leaning that way go to Wal-Mart sometime. If your area is like mine, there will be several school age kids there with their parents. Many times they are doing their math lesson and learning the value of a dollar at the same time. Most importantly the parent is forming bonds that will last and teaching more important lessons than those learned in school.

There are some good things about public school, but I really think the government needs to take a step back and look at how restrictive all the testing makes the job of educators.

In Ohio we have OHDELA, it is a charter school, they sent the books, computer, printer, everything my son needed for school for no cost. They have one hour of live learning per day with a live teacher and other students while online. They give the daily lessons of what is needed done every day.

I pulled my son out of public school because it was like he fell through the cracks and there was no getting him out of the position they put him in while he was there. One year of the online/homeschooling and he learned and did more at home than he ever did at his old school.

This school year he wanted to go back to school. I would have said no but we did move and I'm glad he went back, it's a whole different scenario.

When there is a school like the first one he was in, sometimes the best choice is homeschool. I'm glad we did it!!

How would they allow kids to be more creative when the number of days spent in school per year is not up to what it used to be anymore. Teachers always go for one training or the other hence, the very many breaks they have before the end of a school year.

I checked my son's school calendar recently and found the number of days the teachers take off is almost equal to the number of public holidays we have. So, there cannot be room for creativity or any activity when there is no time itself. It's so pathetic.

I am from SC and our school system is not good at all.  I have managed to see my sons (3 boys) graduate from the Greenville County School System.  It was not easy but they made it.  The school system keeps adding more to the their circumlum but does not remove anything.  Just think about it, if you keep adding water to a glass, what is going to happen?  There is a big spill.  The kids do not have time to be kids anymore.  Maybe that is why they act out the way that they do SOMETIMES. 

The primary education system in this country is a partnership, between the school system, parents and children.  There is little room for children to be "creative" because there is a set curriculum that must be taught and learned.  There is a place for creativity outside the classroom. 

I roundly reject the assertion that the public schools are failing our children and nation; the failure is shared and parents and children cannot opt out of the blame and point fingers at the schools and teachers. 

Like most things, Americans want high quality, but are unwilling to pay for it!  If you think the quality of the teachers is low in your district, PAY THEM MORE!  We value sports figures and celebrities more in this nation tan we do teachers.  Is it any wonder that inner-city school systems are falling apart? 

Instead of encouraging children to show more creativity in school, perhaps we should encourage them to show a little more pride and self-respect for self and country, and do their best to educate themselves!   

And an education is never "too" much trouble!     

I'm just thankful I don't have a child in the Public School System anymore.  Talk about leaching creativity and free thought ~ If I had a child today, I'm sure I would homeschool, probably as a group with other Moms :) since mine is an only child.  I'd still want to encourage that socialization. 

Not all Public Schools are created equal.  Some are undoubtedly better than others; experience has taught me that the district the school is in heavily influence how "good" or "bad" it is.  Inner-city public schools, by-and-large have far less money than suburban schools, and so the "creative" programs they can offer is limited.  It is wrong to condemn ALL public schools in the country.

We have put four children through the public school system; the forth is currently attending a wonderful public school as a sophomore in high school.  Out of the three that have graduated one-the oldest-is getting her second Masters Degree and is the Principle at a High School; two more are currently attending college.  Each has enjoyed a rich and full education at the hands and minds of the public school system.  My youngest is in the school chorus and enjoying herself immensely (creativity). 

The public schools are not a collective social club, they are places of learning.  They are not a babysitting service, they are institutes of learning.  They are not meant to give our children a full well-rounded education, we must play a part in that; i.e. parents are and should be educators as well. 

I agree Vincent.  It's easy to point to the schools and say they are failing and many in Florida do.  Then why I ask is my daughter doing so well in school?  I say this not merely from the schools standards, but my standards as a parent and a highly educated individual.  She's mastering subjects in the 7th grade (math & science) that I was just being exposed to in 9th grade andI was in New York's Special Progress (SP) program.

I think a lot depends on the involvement of parents and their instilling the value of education in their children.  Early on we taught our daughters that "ignorance has no reward" and that the person who reads most generally learns most.

Might our state's FCAT exams be a little overemphasized?  Sure, but on the other hand it's good to know that our children are being held to at least some minimum standard of knowledge.

The opportunity for greater creative thought is available too though our students have to make some effort to get engaged in it.  My daughter and several of her friends are involved with programs available to them through the National Honors Society as well as a number of community sponsored academic projects offered by her school.

Would she rather have more time to play with all her electronic gadgets.  I guess she might, but then she is highly aware of our academic expectations of her.

Also, here in Palm Beach County we have a system known as EdLine fully implemented.  At any time we can go to the web-site and securely monitor our daughter's progress and performance.  If an assignment is handed in late, we know about it immediately.  No end of the marking period surprises here.

Interestingly, since the start of our economic meltdown there has been an influx of students who previously attended expensive private schools.  Generally speaking they are struggling to keep up with their new public school classmates.

I read an article recently quoting the President of Cal-Tech, one of the most prestigious universities in the US.  He made the observation that nearly all of their freshman come from public rather than private schools.  He opines that successful public schooled students know how to do the work.  We expect our daughter to do the work and she understands just how important doing the work is. 

I went to public schools my entire life, and I feel quite confident that I turned out fine.  I think there exists the possibility that students can still be extremely successful in the public school system.

i went to a public school and my husband went to a catholic private school. i can't believe how much you have to pay for private school. my husband's mom now pays $300 a month for EACH of her other two kids to attend private school. the town i'm from has a GREAT public school with lots of extracurricular activities: band, chorus, soccer, football, track, swim team and lots more. i agree that all schools are not created equal. there's a website greatschools.net and you can check out public schools ratings and private schools. both of my children will be attending PUBLIC schools. there's no way i'll be paying $600 a month for schooling!

I didn't go to a public school so I can't specifically comment on my experience, although I had many friends who went to public school and went on to become doctors, get multiple degrees, and so on.  So it's not like ALL public schools keep you down.  I know a lot of smart and well-rounded kids that came from public schools and they didn't spend 1/2 the year prepping for tests.  They learned a lot of the same things I learned in private school.

Anyway, the comment I have is about teachers.  I don't care how many books and DVDs you get, a homeschooled parent will NEVER have all the knowledge of the dozens of teachers your kids will meet throughout the years.   Teachers usually specialize in a subject and dedicate years to perfecting their knowledge on that subject.  I learned a lot from my teachers through my years of school.  I can't even imagine trying to learn calculus from my parents who don't even really know it themselves. Heck I took 3 years of calculus in college and still don't think I could teach it to my kids b/c it is tough!  I have a lot of friends who are teachers and I am sure they would be offended to hear that some parent thinks they can teach better than them.

As others have said, the schools are not entirely to blame.  Parents must be involved in their kids studies as well.  My teacher friends have told me how THEY get yelled at if a student fails.  The parents 100% blame the teacher, even if the teacher had sent home notes and progress reports.  Even if the teacher has had previous conferences with the parent about the kids behavior.  Some parents won't take any blame.  

My parents were nothing like this!  If I did bad in a class, they did not even think to go yell at the teacher!  If I failed a test I was the one grounded and having to study extra hard.  Obviously if I had failed over and over and gave a sob story blaming the teacher (as some kids will do) they would have spoken to her.  But in the end they would have been smart enough to know it was my slacking, not the teacher, that got me the bad grade.  Being in a real school helped me learn responsibility and deadlines.  If I could have "chosen" what days were school days... well none of them would have been!  

As far as creativity... I learned creative things in EVERY CLASS!  We had projects in almost every class that involved making a book or a poster board or building a replica from a historic event, etc etc.  In Grade school and High school both we had to make a movie based on something we learned.  I worked in group projects in almost every class and learned teamwork as well.  My teacher friend was just telling me of some games she learned to help her students learn a subject.  The point is, just b/c there may not be a ton of "art" and "music", you'll find many classrooms incorporate creative things into their every day learnings.  My school had art and music but I used a lot of creativity outside of those classes as well.

Anyway, I'm off my soapbox! 

I attended public schools also, all my life. My parents had me paddled at school more times than I can remember but that's another issue.  Then we got it again when we got home...my parents never faulted the teachers.  And I'm glad...we did some pretty dumb things.  Hey, it made those of us who went through it who we are today.  Church & School were my parent's babysitters...drop off, pick up, not talk about the day.  I turned out ok anyways, but when my son almost got knifed on the bus one day when he was 9, I was livid.  The school did nothing so we had to take matters into our own hands and scare the hell out of the knife wielding kid, whose mother did nothing and the schools washed their hands of it.

I'd be terrified if I had a child today in most of the San Antonio school districts...period.  Raising them in a bubble doesn't work either...I'm just grateful I AM DONE!

{exit my soapbox}

vivasuzi said…

Anyway, the comment I have is about teachers.  I don't care how many books and DVDs you get, a homeschooled parent will NEVER have all the knowledge of the dozens of teachers your kids will meet throughout the years.   Teachers usually specialize in a subject and dedicate years to perfecting their knowledge on that subject.  I learned a lot from my teachers through my years of school.  I can't even imagine trying to learn calculus from my parents who don't even really know it themselves. Heck I took 3 years of calculus in college and still don't think I could teach it to my kids b/c it is tough!  I have a lot of friends who are teachers and I am sure they would be offended to hear that some parent thinks they can teach better than them.

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Agreed Suzi! I have a DEGREE in Biology and took all sorts of courses on the subject in college: Genetics, Ecology, Neurbiology, Systems Physiology, Insect Physiology, Virology, Marine Biology, etc.  I don't understand how parents think that they can possibly teach their children as well as someone who has the content background as a certified teacher.  I have a college degree and have taken many chemistry and physics classes, but I wouldn't presume to try to teach a child those subjects let alone English literature, history, advanced math, etc. 

vivasuzi said…

As others have said, the schools are not entirely to blame.  Parents must be involved in their kids studies as well.  My teacher friends have told me how THEY get yelled at if a student fails.  The parents 100% blame the teacher, even if the teacher had sent home notes and progress reports.  Even if the teacher has had previous conferences with the parent about the kids behavior.  Some parents won't take any blame.  

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No, they won't.  It is never their little darling's fault that they are on their cell phone all through class, take no notes, don't pay attention, don't study, etc.  Many parents (though not all) want to be their child's FRIEND and refuse to actually be a parent that holds them accountable to certain standards.  It makes them "cooler" to their kids when they attack the teacher for failing grades. 

Been there, done that, and you wouldn't believe the kind of documentation that I now start keeping when a student slips into a C, D, or F range.  If I don't walk into there with a 2-inch thick file of copies of notes the students were given and cross-referenced with the exact word-for-word test questions, copies of failed quizzes, doodles that they did in class rather than paying attention, and dates/times that I attempted to call them, then I am in for 40 minutes of abuse. 

The abuse got old fast, though, so now I just walk in, give them my "evidence", and they really can't do anything other than apologize for their child's lack of effort. 

TheBard said…

  There is little room for children to be "creative" because there is a set curriculum that must be taught and learned.  There is a place for creativity outside the classroom. 

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I agree.  The amount of content that I am supposed to cover by May 15th or so is staggering.  There are so many labs that I want to include in my lessons, but there simply isn't enough time.  We have to be done by that date for the NJ State Biology exam.  The ridiculous thing is that we still have a month of school after that to go... what does one do during that month when you've already banged through the entire curriculum?

The good news is that my students do very well on that exam despite the fact that I push them to work hard and their "creativity" is stifled. 

I hate public school, it's dirty, my kids catch everything, my daughter who is in first grade now had so much homework last year in kindergarten that I couldnt keep up with it and so many state standard tests now for elementary kids!! The teachers are grumpy all the time and the principal seems so de-sensitized by all the fighting that she just doesn't care enough anymore. I hate this school. If I had the patience to home school I would but never gonna happen!!

njchicaa said…

TheBard said…

  There is little room for children to be "creative" because there is a set curriculum that must be taught and learned.  There is a place for creativity outside the classroom. 

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I agree.  The amount of content that I am supposed to cover by May 15th or so is staggering.  There are so many labs that I want to include in my lessons, but there simply isn't enough time.  We have to be done by that date for the NJ State Biology exam.  The ridiculous thing is that we still have a month of school after that to go... what does one do during that month when you've already banged through the entire curriculum?

The good news is that my students do very well on that exam despite the fact that I push them to work hard and their "creativity" is stifled. 

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That month might be a great time to do some of the labs you couldn't schedule during the school year.  It could be excellent reinforcement of the subject matter.

njchicaa said…

TheBard said…

  There is little room for children to be "creative" because there is a set curriculum that must be taught and learned.  There is a place for creativity outside the classroom. 

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I agree.  The amount of content that I am supposed to cover by May 15th or so is staggering.  There are so many labs that I want to include in my lessons, but there simply isn't enough time.  We have to be done by that date for the NJ State Biology exam.  The ridiculous thing is that we still have a month of school after that to go... what does one do during that month when you've already banged through the entire curriculum?

The good news is that my students do very well on that exam despite the fact that I push them to work hard and their "creativity" is stifled. 

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True creativity needs to be fostered outside of the school setting by the parent and true as chicca states teachers are required to put so much in their curriculum it's crazy.  But to me, at least in the early years most importantly that creativity can be infused into everything teachers are doing.  Why does every picture that's hung up outside the classroom have to look the same, there is room for just giving kids materials and seeing what they can do with it in whatever subject you are covering.  I work in preschool and our teachers are even expected to cover a lot in the small amount of time we have the children, but they are supposed to find ways throughout the day to encourage creativity.  One policy we have made is that there are to be NO ditto sheets used in the classroom (pre-defined color sheets).  This is just a start bu there are many things that can be done... a lot is mind-set and training teaching methods.

TheBard said…

Like most things, Americans want high quality, but are unwilling to pay for it!  If you think the quality of the teachers is low in your district, PAY THEM MORE!  We value sports figures and celebrities more in this nation tan we do teachers.  Is it any wonder that inner-city school systems are falling apart? 

 

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I would love to be able to do this... unfortunately it seems like education is a pawn for politics (at least in Michigan anyway).  For at least 4 years in a row there have been budget cuts to the state-aid school budget, some fairly extreme.  In a society where teachers are expected to do more but are given less resources it makes it a little more difficult to pay more.  Even right not passing a milage isn't going to cover what is being taken away... and most people cannot afford an increase in property taxes to pass a milage.

lilsquibb said…

njchicaa said…

TheBard said…

  There is little room for children to be "creative" because there is a set curriculum that must be taught and learned.  There is a place for creativity outside the classroom. 

---

I agree.  The amount of content that I am supposed to cover by May 15th or so is staggering.  There are so many labs that I want to include in my lessons, but there simply isn't enough time.  We have to be done by that date for the NJ State Biology exam.  The ridiculous thing is that we still have a month of school after that to go... what does one do during that month when you've already banged through the entire curriculum?

The good news is that my students do very well on that exam despite the fact that I push them to work hard and their "creativity" is stifled. 

---

True creativity needs to be fostered outside of the school setting by the parent and true as chicca states teachers are required to put so much in their curriculum it's crazy.  But to me, at least in the early years most importantly that creativity can be infused into everything teachers are doing.  Why does every picture that's hung up outside the classroom have to look the same, there is room for just giving kids materials and seeing what they can do with it in whatever subject you are covering.  I work in preschool and our teachers are even expected to cover a lot in the small amount of time we have the children, but they are supposed to find ways throughout the day to encourage creativity.  One policy we have made is that there are to be NO ditto sheets used in the classroom (pre-defined color sheets).  This is just a start bu there are many things that can be done... a lot is mind-set and training teaching methods.

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I will concede the point; in the early years of a child's life creatively is vital inside and outside the classroom.  But the primary vehicle for the creativity should be the parents, not the school system.  And this trend should continue throughout the child school career, except for the arts.  I believe that most of the blame for the failure of our school systems, especially those in the inner cities, is the almost complete disengagement of the parents and the whole disintegration of the family unit.   This, coupled with the head-shaking narcissism displayed by most of our youth combine to create an increasingly "dumb" society.   

I have never believed that the school system(s) alone should take the blame for the failure of our young people to excel to their full potential; we all (parents, teachers, society as a whole) share in the blame equally.  How has pointing fingers at the schools system worked out for the nation so far?   

Educators in NJ are under attack.  They want to strip our pension, medical benefits, and also make our 10 sick days per year "use it or lose it"... despite the fact that we aren't eligible for state disability if we are seriously injured. 

We are also supposed to teach MORE with like a 30% decrease in science supply budget.... and don't get me started on the attitudes that we deal with as we actually try to "educate" the students. 

TheBard said…

I will concede the point; in the early years of a child's life creatively is vital inside and outside the classroom.  But the primary vehicle for the creativity should be the parents, not the school system.  And this trend should continue throughout the child school career, except for the arts.  I believe that most of the blame for the failure of our school systems, especially those in the inner cities, is the almost complete disengagement of the parents and the whole disintegration of the family unit.   This, coupled with the head-shaking narcissism displayed by most of our youth combine to create an increasingly "dumb" society.   

I have never believed that the school system(s) alone should take the blame for the failure of our young people to excel to their full potential; we all (parents, teachers, society as a whole) share in the blame equally.  How has pointing fingers at the schools system worked out for the nation so far?   

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I agree with you as well.... and it has gotten to the point where some schools are stiffling that parent-school connection as well.  We were involved in a research grant that was to promote academic success in boys of color through several different activities including mentoring the students but also working on getting the parents engaged in their children's lives and education.  This funding for the second part is now up for question because there is statistical data to support the accomplishments the mentoring has made (the lower number of parents makes their statistical data unusable.)  PLUS the teachers involved in the program are not supporting the need for getting parents involved stating they can control the mentoring piece and that's all the child needs - basically I'm his mentor and if he can be encouraged to work for me that's all that matters.  Unfortunately, next year that child will leave your classroom and may even leave the district since many families around here are so transient... then what.

I think many school need some re-thinking as to best practice, leadership and curriculum... and I also think parents need a kick in the butt to wake up to how important it is for them to be actively involved in their child's education and life. 

It's a two way street that both parties see as a one-way street with a bridge they seem afraid to cross.